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welcome to liquid margins social annotation bridging theory and practice today's guests are cindy garcia associate professor of theater arts and
dance at the university of minnesota melinda lindquist associate professor of history at the university of minnesota jiren zhu jinrin zhu excuse me
phd student in learning technologies and today's guest moderator bodang chen associate professor in learning technologies also from the university of minnesota so we've got i don't know what their
mascot is but you know go fireflies or whatever it is it's all university of minnesota today might be mosquito not sure okay
so and i'm frannie french and i'm your host today and i'm going to now stop sharing my screen and i'm going to turn it over to our guest moderator moderator photon
welcome beaudong thank you for the wonderful introduction franny and welcome everybody to this episode of liquid margins amboden chen i am associate professor in learning technologies
and at the university of minnesota our moscow is gophers so we're all gofers here we're super excited for this opportunity to share a really recent
partnership we have been building in the past semester at the university of minnesota around social annotation so now i just want to ask our panelists
maybe to jump in and tell a little bit about yourself including what is your primary role at the the university with your academic or even you know hobbies or academic interests and
personal interests just to tell us a little bit more about yourself so cindy do you want to kick us off sure i'm cindy garcia i'm an associate professor in the department of theater arts and
dance i have an interest in baile popular which is latin american social dance popular dance so my first book is on salsa dancing
called salsa crossings dancing latinidad in los angeles so i and i really like to think about how um the social like race racism
gender um social class all play out in relation to people in social spaces uh and yeah i'm a former elementary school teacher
and at an experiential progressive school and that really informs a lot of how i teach so thanks melinda do you want to go next sure thank you so much
um i'm melinda lindquist and i'm an associate professor of history and my primary areas are u.s history african-american history gender history and intellectual history and
my work thinks a lot about the ways in which social scientists construct knowledge about race and gender in the united states and the current project that i'm working on is um a history of the achievement gap and
sort of thinking about what that sort of the discursive work um of even that sort of notion of you know having a term like the achievement gap does um but i'm also really interested in the ways in which social scientists um and
also lawyers and legal scholars as well as youth have engaged in debates about education and achievement um and i would just say that uh thank
you for the invitation today um but there and there's been something very nice about working with this tool and actually sort of thinking about um sort of notes and notation
and the ways in which they're very much sort of you know linked to to learning which is something i'm much more interested in than than achievement so thank you shiran please jump in um
thank you hello everyone my name is xin yang i'm a second year phd student in learning technologies at the university of minnesota and i'm also working as a graduate instructional designer at a college of
design that supports online teaching and other online learning initiatives and before i came to umn i did my master in educational psychology at the university of connecticut
so research-wise i'm interested in learning analytics and online collaborative learning and now exploring uh connecting social annotations and learning analytics techniques to support teaching and learning online
thanks for having me today all right wonderful thanks everybody for your quick introduction uh i also want to give a great shout out a big shout out to uh two colleagues who are in attend for
attending the webinar um who are shauna cruzen who is the educational technologist at the college of liberal arts who has been doing unlimited support for this
partnership and also hong shui a phd student working with me and shenan on the research and design side of this partnership so a big kudos to them as well
personally i have been using hypothesis i've been interacting with hypothesis for for a while for many years i have different hats i use it as an instructor myself
i teach using hypothesis in my graduate level and undergraduate level courses and also have a huge interest in like menina was talking about how annotation
as a knowledge practice is connected to other parts of learning and cognition which expands my interest to you know designing uh and incorporating annotation in
workflows as young as high schoolers to see whether they can you know bridge their classroom discussion with what's going on in the news around climate change and so that we can design
uh newer pedagogical practices to really enable new type of learning in the classroom so i really appreciate being able to work being able to use an incorporated
hypothesis in all kinds of settings and that really transitioned to my next question to our panelists that is how did you learn about social annotation and why did you
use hypothesis in your class in the past fourth semester please feel free to jump in we don't need to necessarily go in order but cindy you're ready okay oh i learned about it through a
workshop this summer um where shauna crossin was there a technology consultant um at the university of minnesota and um i think maybe shenron was there and hong and
borong you may have been there too um and i i remember getting really excited about this idea of hypothesis and social annotation
and i pursued um getting the integration um into my canvas site and i went to this special training um just for hypothesis and social
annotation which was exciting to me probably the most exciting thing i learned about online teaching this past summer and i was excited about it for a couple
of reasons i was going to be teaching i was developing a course dance history that i had inherited that i was wanting to change up and really think about it
it's a writing intensive course and i really wanted to think about how to teach writing in a way that students could really pay attention to the text that they were reading in order
to learn from the writing strategies of those authors and then incorporate them into their own writing so that was one thing that was exciting to me
and another was just really focusing on how do you read that one of these university level texts uh it's hard enough to read by yourself
and so when you get to read with your um with co-students it's really wonderful for the students to share their knowledge with each other so i
wanted to incorporate one this cooperative learning model that i used to use when i taught elementary school and also i used to teach reading so i had all this training on comprehension
strategies and so i would include that as as prompts for students to annotate so things like using prior knowledge you know what's familiar um identifying the main idea or the
argument um asking questions what's new to you um making connections and then another time we had a an annotation based on what in this reading sparks your
curiosity so that that's how i got it excited about all of this so maybe pass it to melinda thank you um i similarly was introduced
to the to the tool by uh by shauna crosston which was um which was wonderful i was really very excited about it um and i think part of the reason i was excited about
it is because um before learning about the tool i had started to shift my teaching practice um in my in the large survey course that i teach
and so which is also a writing intensive course and there's a lot of attention to you know like writing a certain type of you know thesis driven essay that has you know that engages
deeply with primary sources and as i was rethinking that course um last year before hearing about hypothesis i had come to the conclusion that that i think that some of the most
important work and thinking that scholars do is in the process of reading and taking notes and so last spring i revamped that course and all of a sudden note taking became
one of the most important things that the students did it was the one assignment that they were always required to um you know like that was basically like the week's assignment they would work through different types of things
around writing um but each week they had to always submit their notes and so i think that since i was already sort of shifting my thinking in terms of the ways in which scholars do so much thinking in terms of
annotation um and how they sort of deeply engage with the text before they move on to you know forming a thesis and you know you know writing and through that process so i think that
when i heard about the tool from shauna i was excited because i had become excited about note-taking and and then this this time since you gave a little bit of a preview
of some of the ways that you have been um using the tool in your class um the in my class the students spend a fair amount of time in the beginning really like just thinking about notes
as an indiv you know how they're doing how they do that individually trying lots of different types of note-taking techniques that historians use different techniques for primary sources versus the sort of techniques and approaches
um for secondary sources and then um social annotation just really comfortably fit into that because then the next step was now what is it to what is it to take notes collaboratively
what does that sort of open up in terms of opportunities for learning or for questioning or sometimes there's lots of works like how does it also help in terms of the distribution of labor to make you know to make
actually the work more accessible to students um you know on weeks where the where the reading where the reading is heavier how is it that we can sort of share and so i've just found it to be a tool
that i think um you know i was introduced at the to the tool at the moment that i was actually ready to think and then really be able to engage with the tool just because of how important i think notation is and
then it really opened up a lot of different opportunities for how to use the tool especially in the context of the pandemic how to how this tool creates community
when it can be very difficult to create community when i mean i was in a course where i had no you know physical contact with my students and normally that course is set in an active learning classroom
where there are 14 tables of nine and they're mostly sitting and facing each other because the course is very conversational and so the tool also helped to sort of bridge
some of the gaps that were created i think in the learning experience because of the pandemic one reason i really enjoying talking with both cindy and melinda every time is just to
listen to them processing their thinking on teaching and ways to support really deep disciplinary engagement in specific area they're they're really thinking deeply and
um so it i always learn new things you know just every time i meet with them um i'd like to right now it turned to xin and um because you led a systematic review
last year sorry earlier this year and that's really before this partnership was born and then when we had the chance to pilot hypothesis
at the university of minnesota and then kind of all the all the dots are connected uh it was exciting for me because there's a such a group great group of faculty members and instructors who
are piloting this we have been thinking about social and collaborative annotation as part of our research um and then that took off you know the partnership took off just because of mutual interest
from both the research side and also the uh the educational practice side um so shinran can you tell us a bit more about how this partnership looked like and which kind of activity
we we had that really you know which kind of contribution we brought on the table to make this happen yeah um so first i would say in general i think this
has been a very meaningful collaboration among instructors and technology consultant instructional designers and researchers so as researchers we have been interested in social annotation for a
while last march a group of us wrote a paper about social annotation in response to kobe 19 and we developed a strong desire to partner with
instructors to design solutions for online teaching so this summer shanna helped us connect instructors to collaborate and so shanna is really supportive and
passionate about the project and with shanna's help cindy and melinda and another instructor were on board of our research so i think i think there are two key elements in our partnership
first as we collaborate i would say we all have shifted our identities we're not just researchers and they're not just educators i would call us as um call us all as
research informed practitioners as we're all trying to turn research into practice by co-designing co-designing the social annotation activities in our co-design meetings um
cindy and malinda shared their course objectives their insights and their teaching strategies and then based on that we introduced some scaffolding activities and collaborative learning strategies from
the research literature so through the interaction we were able to integrate the research differently to fit in different classes and for the second element i would say
it's a strong rapport we have established during our collaboration throughout this semester we kept our routine design meetings as a chance to share both positive and negative updates
and solve problems together so our co-design has always been an ongoing process there were always good ideas coming from the design meetings and both cindy
melinda and shanna have inspired us a lot so i really appreciate this great partnership and i think these two elements have been the foundation of the project
thanks a lot and um yeah i'm together with you i so appreciate this partnership um and i want to maybe it's a time to um ask cindy and melinda specific
because you already told us uh about how the course looked like right how the what are the key elements about social annotation that was were introduced to your course and i
want to invite you to share a little bit more about you know what was the day two day or week two week activities um that we designed and and we implemented and what was the
how was it from the side of the teacher or how decided how is it from the side of students which kind of strategies did we co-design that were eventually implemented in your course
well i i do want to thank shirin um and hong and bo dang for the collaboration it was it was wonderful to be able to sit um on zoom several times throughout the
semester and plan and my original intention was really only to use the tool um in for for two assignments um and so but to do those two
assignments which were week four and five we met and we developed the scaffolding so in my very first class um and since again i was saying that the model for the class is a very much
collaborative learning model so you know there were portions of our synchronous meeting times where it was you know sort of lecture or large group interactions but there were lots of small group interactions and so i introduced the tool the very
first class when i had them break up into conversations to read a set of guidelines to think about how groups can work how groups work well together and how they you know might not work
well together so it was really helpful having these conversations to think about how to introduce a tool which is a very different type of tool but then to slowly give the students but
also myself because it was my first time using it really a comfort so the plan was you know primarily for these week four and week five assignments which were groups around small groups
as well as large groups that were either annotating historiographic pieces or primary sources but to get there we had that initial meeting and then i continued to introduce the
tool slowly before we got to those first two assignments and then the main thing that i had them do i had them use the tool but i never graded them on the work of using the tool but what i did ask them to do after they
used the tool was to reflect on the process of social annotation um both for dealing with primary sources as well as dealing for historiographic articles and
after that uh i decided to use it basically throughout the rest of the semester so that was my original intention but then i kept coming back and having conversations with you um about how to continue to use the tool
how to extend its use and it was really always very helpful because as we as the use would change we would try to make sure that certain things remain stable so i remember one conversation we
decided you know we're making these different types of changes and how we're going to use the tool but what we want to keep constant are the group members in a group when they're using the tool in a different type of way
and so i think that's that scaffolding throughout was really helpful and then making sure that just like certain variables were changing um over the course of the semester and the
tool was functioned in a lot of in a lot of ways so it was definitely a conversational because it did create the space for conversations between the students it was reflective because note-taking is
so important in my class and i require them to reflect both on sort of individual as well as on the note taking that they do in social annotation um it was also at the by the end
because then i incorporated it more fully we ended up reading a book together where each group had ownership of a certain chapter and then produced a final presentation about
their chapter so then we spent a class where basically we worked our way through an entire book but the tool was this wonderful learning space to then create you know these final products so that was the one place where
it was also like very specifically productive of a certain type of writing as opposed to sort of conversational or reflective and i would the other thing i would say is that i had a class where i
invite um like about 13 faculty members to come and uh talk about this of course about the 1960s so they talk about 1968 like all around the world and for that week the students also read
primary sources from you know south africa or mexico or canada and what i really liked about the tool that week is that it made it really easy because for that week i just invited all
the faculty into the tool and so it created this space for the faculty coming in you know like not knowing the students they're only going to spend an hour with them but they were able to come in and
already have a sense of the conversation so the tool was also very invitational in that you know you could sort of invite people into conversations so um yeah i ended up just i used it in
a lot of different ways i used it um at a certain point um i gave people a choice about like whether to opt into conversations based upon based upon gender if they wanted to mean
a male or a female or non-binary or mixed group and so it also did allow for these different types of configurations um i really like melinda how you talked about
reflection uh anyway uh but yeah i'm excited about that um well in our in our class in dance history um when i think i met with sinron and
hong kong uh and boron at the beginning it was still in the summer i think and um also my ta um jason noor who might be out there in the chat um we uh were talking about
how to develop assignments and um i think it was simran and hong who talked about these roles and introduced jason and i to this way of approaching
this social annotation so one is the facilitator who so a student would be assigned the role of facilitator and uh as the students were all collectively reading
over the weekend um preparing for tuesday's class the facilitator's job was to jump in and encourage the conversation make some connections um point out who's agreeing who's
disagreeing to further the conversation uh and i think sinron you were saying this is sort of the the how like how do we get this conversation going
and then the what it was that the next role was the samurai or sorry the synthesizer and the synthesizer for tuesday's class jump starts our
class conversation by synthesizing the conversation that we had about the annotations from tuesday um they bring up the ideas
they bring up disagreements but they're really pulling these ideas together um and asking questions for us to think about for the thursday class and then the summarizer would turn in
a summary of the weeks findings discourse arguments tensions questions that we developed and create a summary so we would stop you know so that so
that's facilitator synthesizer and summarizer and jason and i noticed a couple two or three weeks into this that it was really getting slippery between
the different roles and we needed to pause and work with well we had to actually to ask shinran and hong um okay we we have to just get clear on this again
so um we really tried to delineate more clearly um but you know what's the difference between these roles and how can we communicate that better to students so we recreated a document
that we could share with students about what what are the possible ways to respond within each role and the students actually helped develop that too we asked them what did they think what
how did they activate this role so we had that list going and that really improved their work it really improved
the quality of the way that they performed these roles and even the way that the other students then would respond um to the synthesizer or be able to use the summary they started
to realize okay we spent some time talking about what's the difference between a synthesis and a summary these are two different kinds of writing so this became some of the part of the focus of of a writing
intensive course they were doing annotations they were doing facilitation writing as facilitation syntheses and summaries as well as
writing reflections so oh i can share that document if i can find it you just gotta email me um seriously stuart um anyway so
um yeah that was that was really probably a really powerful uh experience it lasted the whole semester it took a lot of energy and students really had to do
like complete their roles by a certain point each week so we had really clear deadlines and then what you know when the facilitator was done all the students would be done doing
this by sunday evening so i was going to teach on tuesday i would go re-read this article and look at what the students said and i could notice things like where
were they where do they really understand what this author's saying where did they really go off on some with some other idea sometimes students weren't really clear about like the history of blackness
or ways to think about race and racism and so rather than pointing out you know people in a in a conversation in class discussion i could really back
up and scaffold ways to talk about race and racism if students hadn't really done that before sometimes students would pull out quotes
that the author would use and they would sort of decontextualize them and then i would say aha they're just looking at the quote they're not looking at how the author is using this quote to create an
argument so the author doesn't believe in this colonialist idea of racism and dehumanizing enslaved africans it's the quote that is is creating this
idea so i would back up so in in the class that i would lead i would look at the where the author is structuring her argument and
then i would bring that quote up and say why did the author use this quote so i could i could really recreate um and scaffold better um when i was
teaching and so the idea of any kind of pre-planned lecture is not really part of how i used this it really is like you are
really teaching to the students who are in your class and the ideas that they bring so it's always you're always recreating ideas and learning together i love the way you're putting it cindy
that it's it's always creating ideas and i also appreciate both of you um your openness in terms of rethinking what learning is in your course and rethinking learn how
learning can happen in your course in such a special semester there's a lot of design efforts that was were put in um like re-imagination of the course
and how what writing is for example writing could be very linear but the way you're describing it is reflective conversational facilitatory and and so on so i really appreciate
that uh in the meantime i'm looking at the time so i'm going to post one final question to all of you um first to shinran is we have been you know this research still ongoing
but i wonder what type of research ideas do you think will be on the horizon in terms of this only first round of this partnership and what will be coming out next
and also to cindy and melinda if you're going to do this again i hope that's the case for the spring no pressure but that's my hope um how might you do it differently how might you use hypothesis differently
what are the hopes you have as an instructor that we want to explore further so sheena do you want to get us started yeah sure um
so um we did a little review this year on social annotation and we found there are great nuances with designing and social annotation activities so
at the same time one major focus from the current literature as i see is the is that some studies have been focusing on describing the application and results of the technologies or
interventions in online or hybrid classes but there are not enough studies to define the design process or explore how the design plays out over time
and also as instructors they're always very busy with their teaching workload it's challenging for them to gain useful information from research so i feel like there's a gap between
research studies in one specific classroom and other classrooms outside of the research so as the technology materials it will be nice to distill design patterns test them in various
settings and then make them broadly available for instructors to consider and apply in their own classrooms and also we're also exploring building analytics
tools first to help teachers to have a better understanding of how their students are reading and annotating and to inform their instructional decision making and also
then we want to help students to track their own learning and be more self-regulated and engaged in the collaborative learning through the social annotation
thank you um so in terms of i definitely plan to use this in the future and i'm going to use it and i'm thinking i'm going to use it in a in a pretty different way so the course
that i just taught it was it was a large course but it was not a writing intensive course and so i think that the tool while our use of the tool was highly scaffolded and very conversational and reflective
and i frequently encourage them to use um you know the different types of sort of note taking strategies and to bring those into social annotation that was not a requirement in this
course and so thinking about the conversation like about cindy and reflecting upon the use in that class my plan next time in the in the writing intensive course
is to use a much more sort of directed and directive strategy with hypothesis so this time around i mean i would read through their responses i would definitely use their responses
in the places that they were really interested in i would highlight those points or if i saw issues that needed clarification i would definitely use that um in the lectures and sort of like bringing those questions
to the larger class but i do think that um in a writing intensive course there's a lot of opportunity to use the tool to specifically do the work that i want the students to do in terms of you know like gaining
confidence about you know what's what what is a really strong thesis how does one you know encounter it in the text um and then how does one then think through their own primary sources to be
able to generate um a thesis of their own so my plan is to move from this sort of more open-ended approach to a more directive strategy and i'm going to be really curious to
see how the students responded the students responded i think very favorably to the way that we used it in the course i think that they really appreciated the fact that they could sort of use the
tool how they wanted to use the tool um and then just sort of thinking about research and this is a conversation that we had when we were together um and and one of the things i noted
was right the ways in which the students in the course frequently responded like there were lots of emotional responses in in their annotation and um
i think one thing that i've been curious about is what is this relationship between like emotional and effective responses and intellectual um development and inquiry and it strikes me that that these things are actually very
closely related um more closely related than we might think um and that and that having um getting a sense and seeing their engagement in those terms while my first response was maybe to
think oh like this isn't the right type of use of this tool by the end of the semester i was thinking actually it's really important to have these types of reflections embedded in the annotation
not only because it's a very sort of authentic reflection of how they're encountering the sources but also because i think that these things are are closely related and i think it would be interesting to do
more research just to think about these things and in my course i also did use something called a labor log and so each week the students and we talked about this as well in our conversations each week when the
students logged in their labor they also did log in like their mood um and their you know the different types of emotions that they were carrying through the course of doing the labor
for the week so i i would be curious and i think it'd be wonderful if there was research that continued to think around around those types of questions i would be interested in reading it and learning from it well
i'm definitely going to use this again next semester i'm teaching an entirely different course and i haven't figured out how i'm gonna use this but i will uh when i teach dance history again probably in the fall
i want to build in it seemed like we we just went at this pace we really jumped in which was great and we had little times for reflection here and there
but i really want to do something where i reorganize the syllabus to maybe have a couple of weeks of reading and going through the process and then another week where we don't have new readings
we really refine the process of the roles how do we how are we making annotations looking at specific annotations that we thought were
really effective or that reading somebody else's annotations like how did that affect their own learning so really having students
dig into what have we done in these last two these first two weeks right um and then what have we learned like in terms of content how are we thinking about diaspora by way of the caribbean like
what are we learning here and just kind of logging that together um and then asking questions um and then would start another like two or three weeks cycle
and then another week off to try to really integrate together some of these new skills and really develop really fine tune what we're learning so
that they can keep developing these when they're reading at home uh and making annotations so that's that would be something to
integrate but also one day um and hong came in and they were asking the students you know what do they like about this platform about social annotation what were they learning all of these questions
and one of the students started talking about how she how she read she's like oh well usually i read everything first i read i read the
article twice before i even start to annotate and i read everyone's comments um and then i annotate and then another student said actually i just read and i just
annotate the first things and i um and i don't i just read it one time through and another student had a different way of reading and so i i think that that discussion
was really exciting for me because i then thought i want students to become aware that there's many ways to approach a text and they're all different if you read the
text twice and everyone's annotations first that will help frame your thinking um and you might be already reading to respond to one of those annotations which is great um and those annotations might help you
understand the text more deeply so you know if you read it all on your own and you don't look at annotations that might bring a fresh some fresh ideas and then you put that
in relation to other people's ideas there they both work and i think i there are many other ways to to read and i really want to explore that with the students how are they reading because not everyone has comes
with um a deep understanding of how to read critically and so this kind of collective learning really enhances everyone's um i think ability to to learn
and and understand course concepts so yeah thank you uh there are a couple questions from the chat so podang if i can um love those to you and then you can love
them too uh different you can answer them or or log them to the guests whatever you'd like um so karen labonte or labonte
and i should know how to pronounce her name because shout out to karen who's also in portland and it attends so many liquid margins shows it's always great to see you um at some
point or maybe in the chat just tell me how to pronounce your last name so i get that right uh karen says would you say hypothesis affected your own research practices and conceptions of quote unquote
research it's a great question thank you i'm happy to take that one um and i um there was a chat in in the chat channel that we actually i
as personally as a research i use hypothesis daily uh as part of my research workflow as you know the date of the engagement with articles i read and shoot i mentioned about this
literature review article we wrote in the spring we actually as a research group we use hypothesis to do that literature review just because annotation itself i think is fundamental
for a researcher you know to mention cindy and melinda mentioned about note-taking as a reader i think that's the same it's so embedded in our engagement with reading materials whether it's on
paper or whether it's on a pdf document or whether it's on a website so that's to me having this hypothesis infrastructure i see it as actually a
knowledge infrastructure for researchers to better archive our annotations which could be emotional could be very quick and crappy in my case
but so important archive that moment of thinking and then revisit that at a later point to make synthesis to process that thinking further so that i can actually
link that idea with my bigger research agenda so i actually think it's very fundamental as a researcher to think about annotation and think about what tools can actually
support that type of cognition as a researcher so the next question is from chris andrews and he says uh we often talk about what worked in our classes
in terms of social annotation do you have any experiences of what didn't work or didn't work as well as you'd hoped regarding social annotation use and what do you think didn't or no
why do you think they didn't work sorry and what adjustments did or will you make with social annotation in your courses another great question thank you chris i would i would say that um somewhat
it's not that it didn't work it was just learning how to use social annotation um and um experimenting uh so my ta and i would
talk about you know jason and i would be like okay what what kind of comments are we getting how can we get um people to think about it uh at deeper levels and so you know we would pull out some of
the annotations that were really um thick or critical or just really well written and just have students think about that i don't i don't think that the methodology is
um i you know it's just always learning how to do it with the students that you have and and the discipline that you're in so i wouldn't say that there's something that i would throw out
necessarily it was it would just be to like sometimes have more time to reflect and deepen the learning um is what i would want to do i mean i think the only thing i would
add is that i do think that because the students in my class had spent the two prior weeks really practicing with these very specific ways about how
to read and take notes on primary sources in historiography i think i did expect more of um to see that carry through
more in the social annotation i i encouraged it i didn't require it um and i think you know a portion of the students you know took me up on that but a large
number didn't take me up on that and so i do think also because my approach was much less more sort of directive like i would give people i did in fact give lots of directions so
for example in cindy's earlier when you were talking about the different types of ways of reading even as they were using the tools my instructions would be very specific so sometimes i would say i want you to do all of your reading and
annotation separately before you go and use this tool so you have the experience of what is it to have gone through that entire cognitive cognitive process on your own and then use the tool and then another time i
said i want you to only read within the tool and there will necessarily be you might be the first person so it might be the same process or you might be the 15th person and then you're gonna have to sort of juggle
between how how it is to read and to see other people's ideas in the comments so i think it i mean i think that the tool i ended up finding like different ways
to sort of use it or think about it which i thought was helpful in terms of helping the students think about their own process of learning but there was less of that immediate translation i mean
i had talked to them about using the tags um and using because both of the annotation forms like have an acronym so i was thinking that they would sort of like use these tags and bring that those specific
styles of annotation in um and they really opted not to and i didn't require it because also i wasn't i didn't have in a course of 120 students even with my two tas like we were not
going to be able to police and monitor um that that work that there was just no possibility of that um and i think at the end of the day i was i was fine um
with that as well but not i don't know if it's a failure but it was an opportunity that i think at first i thought oh like this is maybe a missed opportunity but then it did open me up to just sort of like thinking more about
the relationship between like the effective and the intellectual um melinda can i say the tags i forgot about the tags um i would totally want to redevelop how i
teach with the tags um i tried and um they were just sort of a thing that students did that we i didn't pursue um
in a way to to make sure that they were cohesive or that we were trying to identify particular categories that we could go back and use and so that is actually something that didn't work so well because i
was focusing on so many other things um but you know i teach dance history one so if the person who teaches dance history two now that's the students are trained you know maybe she will like okay in this
course we're going to develop the tags so i think there's so much to do um that the students could actually break it up into different semesters different courses
so yeah so sort of uh follow up i know um odong you um gave karen a response in the chat but i thought it might be worth um just taking this last question kind of
exploring it a little bit do you share your own learning processes with students yeah i do i do like to geek out a little bit it depends on which
semester i'm teaching and i do tend to geek out about you know how do i think about knowledge workflows and to chat with them about of course also learn from them as well
about how they think about knowledge practices how they think about you know as they're different they have different professional identities how they think about what is knowledge and and how is knowledge generated and
and how does it look like to work as a community because i always bring up the idea of community together whenever i teach and how does it look like as a community we're building knowledge together
and and that will really be connected to the use of social annotation in my course because we're annotating for our collaborative sense making a very dense idea sometimes very technical ideas that
no one know all those ideas but as a group as a community we can conquer and and really make sense of those ideas together and then build new ideas so so that aspect of my teaching
i think every semester i will spend a bit time just geeking out with my student and chatting with them so that we have that basic community culture already built before going to the tools
and i think that i didn't i really appreciate the question from karen but i didn't do any research yet about how that might have impacted students but it will be a a great thing to do a great research
idea to explore as a next step that's great um hey we're uh one minute before the top of the hour i think we should probably wrap this up i just want to thank you all for coming
and this has been so amazing great show and thanks to everyone um in the chat it's a really good chat um there's a lot of bonding going on in there i always love to see that and people
helping people so it's sort of like the annotation of the show and again there's real community going on there so um thank you all for coming
and i hope to see everybody again in january when we after the holidays will start back up with liquid margins so please join us um this record
this is being recorded and the recording should be available this monday possibly beforehand so look for that and um thank you again for coming
and have a great weekend you
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