Select text to annotate, Click play in YouTube to begin
00:00:08
welcome everybody i'm nate angel from hypothesis as you can see because all our details are spread in front of the screen in every place you look so i don't even know why we introduce ourselves anymore really but in case maybe there's some folks out
00:00:20
there with visual impairments um and i'm really honored to have with me here for not not for the first time actually lysandre lysandre cook um i think i got
00:00:33
that right tonight on the pronunciation kid um who's uh been a long time um educator annotator and has uh
00:00:44
really shared her shared her work and her thinking with us before and i wanted to start things off by um helping people understand what we were imagining in these featured educator sessions so um
00:00:58
as the i mean it may not seem like the end of the day to you but it does to me even though it's only um noon here in portland oregon where i am but um it's been a long day already and so the reason that we wanted to have
00:01:09
these featured educator sessions was to invite folks like lissandra to come and just have an informal chance to have a conversation with some of the other people who were
00:01:21
attending about whatever right whatever's on your mind in terms of especially when it comes to questions about pedagogy maybe or you know you know practice uh teaching practice things
00:01:33
like that you know we have here um a bunch of people both in the audience and um and here on stage although myself not included of course who have a lot of experience and can speak to things so
00:01:46
well i thought i'd started out i'll just i'll put my sender on the spot just a little bit and ask her to give like just a couple minute spiel a little a little introduction to
00:01:57
um who she is and what she does as an educator and then how annotation has played into that just super informally just so that people can get a kind of picture of of what you've been doing sure um hopefully that sound is working
00:02:13
um i am a special education professor at the university of virginia and i primarily train pre-service teachers new teachers but i also work with in-service teachers
00:02:24
and i teach both online asynchronous and hybrid and then of course with the pandemic i taught all online but i was really thankful to have tools
00:02:37
like hypothesis and during that shift um because i used it in more innovative ways for my online synchronous courses as well so i think um i vis i utilize it as a tool just like any other tool i would in
00:02:51
my pedagogy i don't lead with it and say well i need to use hypothesis so i'm going to force fit this thing i use it for you know kind of backwards design the idea or the purpose the outcome objective and
00:03:04
then use it as a tool that fits it both especially in the online courses i think is really helpful for helping students build that sense of community collaborate and discuss it in that
00:03:16
online asynchronous format i primarily use it to take the place of some discussion threads so that um students aren't and i think in the previously if you were just in that really interesting panel
00:03:29
and i can't remember if it was charisse or janae that was talking about using it um not having to create the content but but kind of creating
00:03:41
through engagement with it with the content that we've already done so i often will put up a piece maybe in module three or four week three or four that connects a lot of the ideas we've already been talking about
00:03:54
and then it's sort of like that check for understanding can you make these connections where are you seeing the connections so that they can engage with it without having to regurgitate everything to then say well i only wanted to say
00:04:06
here's this connection they don't have to write a whole paragraph or something so it's it's nice and it also i found the students love seeing other people's thinking and
00:04:17
my own so i also engage in the annotation so i think it makes my thinking as an instructor really evident to them as well as it's really easy for them to see the
00:04:28
parts that really spark interest with their peers or the things that maybe they didn't notice that somebody else comes in so i think i i use it in an online course in lieu of discussion threads not every week but um
00:04:42
throughout the semester and then i've started using it also in my what would typically be face-to-face courses that have been asynchronous um this last year for students to do a little pre-work
00:04:55
and engage especially if we're doing something like a jigsaw two of them maybe have engaged with one reading and they've been able to kind of asynchronously collaborate on that material before we come to our
00:05:08
synchronous session so it's sort of a way for them to engage with each other before um without having to have another zoom meeting you know we've been trying to figure out ways to have um collaboration that's not just
00:05:22
one more time you get on zoom and do this thing so it's it's been a really flexible tool and then the third way i've been using it um just recently is providing kind of a curriculum map
00:05:35
kind of like a guided note of the course and then they across the semester keep coming back and adding things that are like oh and this so that they have kind of see that they can fill in all the pieces
00:05:48
together so it's more like a guided notes but they bring in other readings and quotes or videos that i've talked that we've shared um and kind of fill in the map so that they have a
00:05:59
solid understanding of where we've been in that semester so it's um pretty wide variety i do think that there was a learning curve on my part both in explicitly teaching the students
00:06:13
how to use the tool um we use the integration with canvas and hypothesis has some great resources on their website that you could use to guide the students so you don't have to recreate all of the
00:06:25
materials to support the students use of it and then also picking i found if i pick tools or articles that are too long and complex
00:06:37
it takes longer and so it's finding the right kind of piece that sort of brings pieces together if you're doing what i usually do it is like one of the thinking routines connect extend and challenge so they already know that thinking
00:06:50
routine and they're doing it with a certain piece and then i have to make sure that peace is appropriate for that but they the students have predominantly really enjoyed using it
00:07:01
i've had students across multiple semesters that have used it in different courses they mention it in the course evaluations they mention in my check-ins with them that they really appreciate connecting with the students and not doing just one
00:07:12
more discussion thread yeah you know it's you've said so much though too much you know it wasn't a ramble at all but it's like there were so many things um and all that that i was trying to hold on to and i really
00:07:25
one little thing caught my attention a lot and that was something you were saying earlier on about how um how you know an annotation can enable
00:07:37
uh both you as a as a teacher but also the other students to model the of reading without it being so high stakes right so you can just have that small connecting thought like you mentioned
00:07:49
and that can be like a real contribution to scholarly discourse at least in the context of the class right yes um without without always without everything always having to have all the weight of you know an essay
00:08:02
or an assignment or a paper or something because i feel like um so much of the intellectual joy of scholarship that people who go into it actually you
00:08:15
know that's why we're there right we actually like to read and think and make connections right and it's it's like something that not everybody on you know knows how to
00:08:27
do it yet or has had the opportunity to do it maybe and you know it's just i just love the way that like in a more informal approach to reading can
00:08:40
be modeled in this way that can then also leave a trail in the annotation annotation record it is and there is there is a reading kind of a reciprocal reading intervention and i teach a reading methods course and
00:08:55
so having the students work together to do partner reading and summarize paragraphs and then go back and forth kind of explicitly teaches them how to do the thing i want them to do with their kids but they've said wow like my reading comprehension has gotten better
00:09:07
because i've done it myself i have to summarize it and then i've also seen how my partner approaches it and so it's been a it's been a useful tool to for them as well but um i see that question about canvas and
00:09:20
when i first tried to use i don't know i think i saw it on twitter hypothesis as a tool and i was the first adopter at uva and it was
00:09:31
so difficult because i um because our canvas support people didn't know how to do it and so i signed up but you know what jeremy dean emailed me like constantly so help me that first year that the
00:09:45
support was amazing and i was really surprised at how actual personalized the support was that i got from the team and now the new one we've adopted it and integration is so much easier and our canvas our online support team
00:09:58
understands it as well so it's easier but um it definitely i know and i know i lost a couple um other faculty that i recommended it to my husband being one of them because he was just
00:10:14
frustrated he's like what's the what key that i have to like and he's like i'm not doing it but uh i think i can maybe bring him back around now that it's easier to integrate yeah you can uh you keep talking about
00:10:27
it so enthusiastically as you do um all right well chris is saying that he is a would like to come on stage um the thing you've
00:10:40
and i've heard it repeated throughout the day the idea of modeling being a very important and useful thing um and one of the questions i have repeated for
00:10:53
a few groups now is you annotate and you have this material then the other half of it is what do you actually do with it what do you do with your notes and your
00:11:06
annotations and some of them are things one might call fleeting notes or reaction pieces but then every now and then there will be something heavy and meaty with a good
00:11:19
hook or word or piece that one can then jump off of um and i always like the or i remember having read in benjamin
00:11:30
franklin's autobiography he learned and taught himself how to write and write well by taking paragraphs from others works or full pages or essays and he would
00:11:43
copy them verbatim and then he would go through and take a second pass and rewrite it in his own words and then rework it and rework it multiple times to eventually
00:11:55
get to something he thought was at least as good as the original writing or better than and typically he was using phenomenal writing exemplars from
00:12:07
great writers of his time to do this um so that's kind of one piece that i always thought was an interesting method of exemplar but the other one that i've been watching and it's it's kind of a growing
00:12:21
community over the last maybe a year and a half that there has been a growth in the kind of personal wiki space online and a bunch of new tools like
00:12:34
rome research notion uh obsidian and a handful of others that are encouraging people to take and keep their own personal notes and i think to a great extent these
00:12:46
communities are building out their own personal examples of how to take notes and why you would want to take and keep notes but i've done some heavy research on the
00:13:00
traditions of the idea of the commonplace book that goes back to ancient greece at least within western history and became much more popular at the beginning
00:13:12
of the maybe the mid 1400s and on through the renaissance what is the commonplace book so a commonplace book and honestly you could think of it
00:13:25
almost as a notebook for anything um so as you're reading if you didn't quite often in the early days books were awfully expensive and one couldn't
00:13:38
afford to own their own or you would own it for a while read it take notes make annotations and you would put those into your commonplace book as a means of keeping it and then you either sold or passed the book along to
00:13:51
the next place or let's say you had access to an actual library where the books were literally changed the shelves you would read it there take your notes and then take all the knowledge you
00:14:03
glean from that thing and move it on and uh erasmus is probably one of the original exemplars but he literally wrote a book a textbook
00:14:17
of how one would keep a common place what would go into it what types of things you would do and literally in writing this book and its subsequent spread
00:14:29
took to a wide variety of scholars the ability to then make their own commonplace books and move that tradition forward um i think we've lost uh and
00:14:43
those commonplace books eventually became uh in the early middle ages they became floor elegia which were more religious oriented
00:14:55
and then the renaissance brought that or the original commonplace book idea kind of back into vogue and i think we've lost a chunk of it in the 1900s and onward
00:15:07
and those things have been replaced by encyclopedias and in the modern world we now google everything we need so why collect your own knowledge database but if you have your own wiki and you
00:15:19
use it it can then become a razor um against which you you know you can sharpen your own mind or uh i guess maybe a
00:15:31
a strop with your razor being the mind being the better analogy um but there's been a rise recently with sanka aaron's has written in english
00:15:44
about a german scholar named nick los lumon who at the beginning of the 20th century started using note cards and kept a note card system where he
00:15:58
would write his notes and annotations particularly the juicy ones and over his career he managed to create 90 000 cards in what he called a zettle casting
00:16:10
or a slip box in german so he kept all of his annotations there and anytime he wanted to write an academic research paper and he worked in sociology he would literally go to his note card
00:16:23
set sort a handful of things and take ideas he'd been given from his reading where he had already written down some of his notes and
00:16:34
as um alessandra had mentioned it's can you kind of write down and keep or reword something you've seen in your writing if you can reword it in your own words
00:16:49
so he's already been doing the writing from his reading taking others ideas and rewording them reframing them writing extended passages which it leverages on that kind of
00:17:01
ben franklin idea i mentioned so when he write needs to write a paper he can go through and find in his 90 000 card catalog deck i want to write about this topic
00:17:14
then he can find all those cards transcribe big chunks of that and then tie it all together in a bigger idea and suddenly here's the new here's new paper but i think this pattern has repeated
00:17:27
itself throughout the centuries and almost every significant academic or researcher since the 1500s has kept or used a commonplace book a zettle casten
00:17:40
uh you know there's 30 words to describe what these are i mentioned earlier in one of the chats uh there's an idea of a wastebook that it comes out of the accounting concept
00:17:53
for double entry bookkeeping accountants used to write down little snippets of receipts and then they would take those lines and transfer them into their accounting books so they called them waste books and you
00:18:06
when you were done you threw it away um but there's a german tradition and an english tradition both on the continent and in the uk or the current uk of
00:18:19
people writing things and little slips to take these notes and they all come from this similar tradition just the name changes every you know 50 or 100 years the current if
00:18:32
you look on the line now and you search for the phrase digital garden you'll find a stream going roughly from about
00:18:43
um mike caulfield i wrote a piece uh called gardens and stream digital gardens and streams i think in 2015 and it has kind of grown from there so the current online
00:18:56
version of this is to have your own digital garden where you keep collecting curate your annotations and notes from things you've read and i so i'm super curious to see and
00:19:08
hear and watch people use that concept or give rebirth to it because there's a super rich group of people annotating and modeling and showing how to bring that idea back
00:19:20
so i think it would be fun to see that kind of renaissance idea of the commonplace book kind of reflower and take take your notes the best notes not the me too comments that you write
00:19:34
in the margins but the actual i read this thing and it sparked this thought take those and collect those and use that as the resource then for writing essays writing papers
00:19:48
sanka aaron's book how to take smart notes is probably the best version in the last three or four years of doing this in an academic setting i think um
00:20:00
but it would be fun to see that type of thing re give rebirth because i think most professors and teachers say oh we have to write an essay for the semester
00:20:12
or write a paper and then you know what do you write your paper about brainstorm ideas well it's incredibly painful to brainstorm an idea de novo but if you've been taking notes in your
00:20:25
research and work all along you can then go back and plunder your notebook or your commonplace book for and the things you're annotating are going to be the things you find most interesting
00:20:37
and useful use those and then you've now got a body of notes with citations let's be honest which is another side benefit and you can then write that paper and it'll take you 20 minutes if you've got
00:20:51
a reasonable source of material to write that from so then you take the you know the annotations and the note taking you've been using all along and then leverage that and go
00:21:04
from the digital reading literacy piece to the actual content production piece on the back end and i i haven't seen this discussed in the academic setting by many yet but i'm seeing this
00:21:18
community around digital gardens settle casting rome research and obsidian people are actively doing this now because they're seeing some of the prior examples
00:21:31
to leverage that i think that's so interesting i i think some of my students would be so excited if there was someone i think had talked about integrating out of the lms and in because i give
00:21:43
them like a google syllabus so that they have all the readings and stuff to go forward but then within canvas we annotate a curriculum map and they've made all those connections
00:21:56
across the whole semester they get frustrated that they can't take that with them without redoing that but i think in a way that's very similar because i'm telling them these are things you're going to build on in your next course and they they've built it here but they
00:22:09
can't you know connect it to the next course but that would be really especially around the standards that we have this the curriculum map or the standards map in our teacher prep program to have something
00:22:21
like that where the students could be annotating and bringing in across courses would be really powerful for them to kind of i do know these things i have met these things i do understand all of it at the end
00:22:32
that would be interesting yeah and that's actually i mean one of the things i think lissandra and i were kind of discussing before was how um when hypothesis got integrated
00:22:45
into the lms it entered a world where it then became harder to make those connections and keepers that'll custom you know for yourself in your own little place and you can't even get back to it sometimes you know it's like it's your
00:22:58
little casting has changed to the wall and you're thrust out of the room um and so you know it is our dream to be able to make those connections again so that people can make those cross connections especially like
00:23:10
between one class and another right that's that's where like higher level learning can really start to take place not just in the context of one class connecting more than one well even on even within hypothesis
00:23:22
and to some extent i think of my hypothesis account as a commonplace book and i can cross-connect ideas using tags so that when i want to search for something i can search for a group of
00:23:35
tags or even on the sidebar of hypothesis that'll tell me i've used this particular tag you know 57 times and they're ranked in order so i can look at that and say i'm super
00:23:47
interested in these 20 topics and i think after 50 that list drops off but if i click on one i can then see all these ideas and then it becomes a small step or i have used um
00:24:02
john udell's facet tool to do a search for that tag and then i can export all that for those tags with quotes i highlighted and ideas
00:24:14
i've written about myself or reframings i've done put that in a document and then just rework it and turn it into a paper but it's that i think that the tougher part
00:24:27
for the renaissance commonplace books was how do you link those ideas back and forth you know how do you create an index for it and literally um was it uh
00:24:42
his name will come to me in a second but there's an incredibly famous uh researcher in the 1700s his literally his first publication was writing about how to
00:24:55
create an index for his commonplace book um and it was one of the things that initially made him famous uh i can't believe i'm blanking and i think he actually started out as
00:25:08
francis bacon's secretary um and then became infinitely famous thereafter i'll pull it up in a minute but how do you link those things and the hypothesis with
00:25:20
you know its taxonomy setup helps to create those links almost immediately so you can search for it here's a list go um but except for it doesn't work in
00:25:32
the lms and then if you yeah or i think there would be sorry even if it's built into the lms is there a way to have the the built-in lms version still give me my own personal
00:25:47
account that i can turn around and walk away with that that actually is the goal chris so that because it's that it's it's the goal of being able to take the commonplace book with you because it really should be yours right not it shouldn't be the institution's
00:26:00
record of your commonplace book um and so the goal is to make it possible for at least the people who want to to be able to merge or join
00:26:11
their institutional identity or work may have taken place inside the lms with their you know annotation of unknown of one's own commonplace book that they might
00:26:24
take on to their next adventure but we're not there yet oh it was um uh john locke oh i've heard of him so he's sort of famous
00:26:37
you know somebody's heard of him once i think yeah um but yeah to have that be your first your first published piece and then go on to write what john locke wrote um but i think a lot of his output and a
00:26:50
lot of that renaissance on output became a result of people keeping all their annotations in one space um another good example i always like to
00:27:02
use is um isaac newton inherited i think from his uncle uh essentially an empty book that he put the title waste book on and took notes and ultimately
00:27:16
turned that notebook into what is now the calculus [Music] so he literally wrote the calculus out of his own commonplace book and then subsequently published but you can there's a digital version online you
00:27:30
can now go look at to see exactly how he developed it because it's all documented and written into his commonplace book and then subsequently he went through and rewrote it and
00:27:42
published papers and books thereafter but um it's interesting to see that kind of evolution of how do you take some small initial thoughts and push them down
00:27:53
the proverbial hill of snow to turn it into a big snowball at the bottom i see there's a little conversation around data sovereignty and why didn't it start there and actually it did start there because that's everything that chris is
00:28:07
referring to is sort of possible out in beyond the lms world but it was hypothesis's you know journey into the underworld of the mls
00:28:18
that lms oh my god i can't even talk that you know that brought this new world of siloed you know kind of interaction that doesn't allow for that kind of thing
00:28:30
so it is our goal to try to you know break it out from the inside but we'll see what happens no and i and i think i the integration to the lms was really helpful for those of us that
00:28:44
teach like you have a class and it's what they take at one time and it's asynchronous and it's the ease of use without them having to create another login or go outside or give them lots of guidance
00:28:56
more guidance so the guidance and the modeling that i do in the class is more about the type of annotations and how they want i want them to interact with each other versus just getting up and running with the new technology which
00:29:08
um depending on the course can be difficult for some students and then you have others that are you know it's easy but um there's always pros and cons of standardization of anything and
00:29:21
integrating it into the lms there's standardization that can benefit but it also then makes it more difficult for some of those really innovative ideas you know one thing that uh one of the earlier panelists
00:29:35
on in the digital literacy's panel janae cohn um often talks about is how she scaffolds experiences that start in the safe quote-unquote space
00:29:47
of the lms to get people used to that idea of modeling reading and modeling short writing and making those small connections and then graduating them out to kind of
00:29:59
public discourse with that same idea and then maybe by then they're ready to sign up for their own accounts instead of resting easy on the lms um integration maybe they are but you can tell you're not in teacher preparation where you now
00:30:13
have to get a teacher up and classroom ready in one year and it's ridiculous the amount like it's so hard because i think all of these ideas are wonderful and if you go over time and you kind of develop that
00:30:25
skill set but then we're like we're trying to pump you out in a master's program in 11 months and give you everything you need to know about k-12 but yeah there's that always that tension i'm just seeing uh
00:30:37
i got a question thrown out from raymie here the social aspects of getting students um what really i one of the things i've struggled with teaching asynchronous online classes is
00:30:50
establishing that sense of community that you can more easily in a face-to-face class where the first day we talk about i share with them kind of my
00:31:02
understandings and my definitions for diversity equity inclusion and then we co-create classroom values we're going to be taking risks in the space how what kind of rules or procedures do we need in place what values should our
00:31:15
class have to get that conversation um to allow those conversations to be had trying to translate and do that same thing in an asynchronous class online is challenging
00:31:28
but i think using some of the same kind of concepts that i do in the face-to-face and then over time having them in their small groups talk about what does that mean and how do they respond to each other instead of
00:31:40
just presenting them like you need to read a discussion post you need to respond one time and make sure that you don't bully people like which is what the the syllabus that i got before previously that was for one of the
00:31:53
online classes i taught that was what basically what it was it was sort of like scolding and got against bullying and i'm like you understand that but you also need to establish that sense of community and so
00:32:04
um i don't use flipgrid but i use our lms has the ability to let students put in video capture video easily within the discussion threads as well as within the hypothesis tool and others
00:32:16
so i utilize that quite a bit and any time a student responds to a discussion post or any assignment i use video to respond back to them a short video
00:32:28
use their name some kind of component about them make some connection about oh well you mentioned your child and this or your child went to an iv school just to try to build that and i see them as a modeling
00:32:40
see them start to do that together so they when they're even when they're annotating about certain ideas around explicit instruction and early decoding they add they feel more comfortable
00:32:54
adding personal components or telling personal stories and they will sometimes use little video clips of themselves talking about something which is really nice that they feel safe but i think it
00:33:06
does take almost to what feels like from the asynchronous side from the instructor point hitting over the head again and again and again that this is a safe space and here is exactly why
00:33:17
um helps for them to do that and also being willing to share components about yourself and your own thought process and how it's changed i think helps that but i think the students both enjoy some of
00:33:31
the discussion threads but also the annotation component becomes more collaborative and social and supportive when it's not the only way they've interacted so they
00:33:44
have interacted previously they've um shared personal information and then they really um are able to start to feel like they're communicating with each other even though it's asynchronous
00:33:57
um wow john brought up a whole another interesting point i was just grooving on what you were saying there yeah about institutional acceptance and lissandra was telling me a little bit about her
00:34:13
her road there at uva where she was an early adopter and um had some had some pain and suffering right i well nobody else uh even our online
00:34:25
support team which is amazing and coming from another institution that basically told you you're going online and we didn't give you any support at all um it was amazing to have the support team that that uv8 has but
00:34:38
they didn't know um hypothesis at the time when i started using it and i really leaned heavily on the hypothesis team who were so wonderful about responding to emails and even getting on pre-zoom calls i don't know what
00:34:52
thing we used wasn't zoom to support me but um now there's a small growing community that does really use it across grounds not just in the school of education but i still have i think um i was
00:35:05
mentioning my husband earlier who's also a professor in our department and he tried to do it one time had trouble with the lms couldn't get it to work and he's not coming back to it but some people aren't as patient as
00:35:17
as i am it seems like you've really managed to make it pay off for yourself but when you think about it um maybe just it even in the department or school level or
00:35:29
god forbid uh university-wide do you have you felt like it's part of your duty almost to try to spread spread the gospel i do and when i talk to people about it
00:35:42
especially um because we do reading i teach reading and intervention and when i talk to other faculty that are doing reading intervention because there are so many this parallels and allows the
00:35:55
students to interact with the text the same way that we hope that our future teachers do in terms of chunking materials summarizing that paragraph like um there's some different number of
00:36:07
different reading interventions that include that partner reading and then they paragraph shrink and then they take turns and they make predictions and then they check so it allows you to do so many of those same things but
00:36:18
with a scholarly article or a reading from um i would love actually if i could get a digital copy of some of the texts that we use the textbooks that we use and they could interact with that
00:36:32
because um without me having to either copy things or redo things because there are often times i've had them annotate like lesson plans or curriculum that um ckla has some great
00:36:46
curriculum units online and having the students annotate those and talk about what parts would be difficult as a teacher what part really makes sense taking a set of iep objectives and then them using where would i be able to embed
00:36:59
these within i mean there's a lot of different ways to to utilize it but um it just takes time and you get better as you try it out and epically fail the first time when i didn't realize that
00:37:12
in the early integration that even though i had my students grouped they were all on one document and i thought they were in small groups of like five but they were really 45 people in the class all it was just it was really difficult
00:37:25
because it becomes very busy when you open it up and there's 45 people all trying to but anyway john john keeps circling around this like how can we make the administrators care and that may be above our pay grade i don't
00:37:38
know us i was really enthusiastic and one of the online support people was really enthusiastic and they really pushed it and then i did go to a university-wide
00:37:52
center for teaching excellence technology integration seminar that personally i didn't find very helpful but i did bring up hypothesis and now i do know that they're using it in other
00:38:05
departments i have no idea if there were other people that were already or in other schools i don't know if they were already going that route but um it seemed like there became a lot more institutional
00:38:17
support and it does make it help more helpful and i don't know on the other end what we pay or what we have to pay to integrate into canvas and all of that components but um i think for adoption
00:38:30
schools and just like anything else in k-12 if administrators are not going to support it you're going to find a few little innovative teachers doing things but if you really want it to go you need you need that support because
00:38:43
we're all short on time well one thing that's happening and i think raymie raymie asked that question before he's probably still here in the audience we could even call him up on stage too but um you know there's a really big research
00:38:56
project going on now at the um indiana university in their kind of you know um freshman english literature program and part of the goal of that research
00:39:07
and i can put a blog post and linked into it about it um part of the goal of that research is to really try to understand the degree to which social annotation does have some kind of effect
00:39:19
on student success more broadly whether that's reading or writing or both and i mean it's you know to john's question i think those are the kinds of stories that turn administrators heads
00:39:31
when you're talking about you know changing the student success metrics in some significant way kind of across the board which is kind of a holy grail in
00:39:43
education research it is yeah i am personally trying to start a study and i have three sections of one class and there's two other sections in the fall and i'm like
00:39:57
this is the perfect place to kind of do um components across time in each of the classes so that we can sort of see how effective it is for the students and what their perceptions are
00:40:11
on it but it's always hard to to study in your own classes and try to find the time and the space and you're so close to it that if there is a perceived benefit you're hesitant to either delay it or to you know really do
00:40:24
a true experiment in your own class because it feels like there's um you don't want to not allow some students to have access to things that are going to help them and
00:40:35
sometimes you're just too caught up in the teaching and learning to take that step back but i'm hopeful that i that i can especially when i have other sections of the course being taught by
00:40:47
adjuncts that i'm like i can help you and i can even though it's the same content and it's my content i feel like i'm a degree away from it that'll be easier to right right well um yeah that sounds
00:40:59
really worthy and um uh raymie pointed out in the chat that um actually the folks from indiana who are running that research um project will be in a very similar session to this on friday so um that would be a great place for
00:41:12
people are interested to to go but also you know if you need uh an ear to bounce your research thinking off lysandre i'm just gonna nominate raymie even though he may not he may not
00:41:26
appreciate it um but anyway he is he's uh sure after the the um podcast that he invited me to ask him questions and come to him as a resource i'm pretty sure he said that
00:41:36
yeah i'm pretty sure he did too so we can take him at his word i mean uh we're all we're all super busy and everything but it's he's really been um he's been acting as hypothesis as scholar and
00:41:49
residents for this past year i guess he's just about to finish out his term here um but uh as part of it part of his role has been to connect with people who are considering research projects around around social annotation so it is part
00:42:02
of this portfolio i've been looking at um research studies using that partner reading reciprocal reading for lower grades and thinking of sort of replicating at the university level a very similar
00:42:14
kind of construct to see how that that might really support their reading and i know we we ask so much of our i mean so much reading is done in higher ed and
00:42:26
i think hopefully most instructors are getting better at sort of making sure that students that you ask them to apply it and use it in some way or they're not going to do it but also how are we supporting their comprehension we just expect them all to
00:42:38
have the same level of comprehension coming in and that's just not you know we we expect differences in k to 12 and then all of a sudden higher ed were like hey you're this monolith of smart kids that come to my
00:42:52
class and you should just be able to do that and so i interested in seeing how that um both reciprocal with the text but also reciprocal with with a partner would be helpful to
00:43:03
and um enhance their comprehension and is that is that partner stuff is that kind of like in my um non you know teacher educator mind is that like the reading buddy model sort of or sort of but it's
00:43:16
structured very structured especially in special ed any and well and especially at anything it's going to be explicit right but also the intervention yeah and there's a number of different models of doing it but there are quite a few that have similar
00:43:29
traits and i'd like to kind of see what if i can model that um those essential elements in the in the higher ed space yeah i think it's funny how and
00:43:42
obviously you keep mentioning in certain areas there are these practices of learning how to explicitly learning how to read right in very like structured ways and then everywhere else it's just sort of like
00:43:54
like you can breathe well you can read that and it's like no one practices it or models it or you know just expects everybody to just walk up to any text and be able to do my level reading on it which is not
00:44:07
really that easy to do no it's not and i think so many um students make it to higher ed and just don't realize how inefficient some of their studies study habits are and so um
00:44:20
some of them have really appreciated using especially around the curriculum map because they're like oh i see you keep coming back to the same ideas and building on them and then building on them and i'm like yes that's that's how we're
00:44:33
building our knowledge you do you don't learn you don't read one thing one time and you've mastered all those ideas how it builds on itself is really important i'm seeing some other questions there too if you
00:44:45
still if you've still got some energy so on this one and i'm probably mangling this is that beret or burr um i don't know
00:44:56
um other professors i i'm not sure i think i mentioned it before my husband is definitely reluctant but that's because he likes things to work one time and he's kind of like i'm going to put together that ikea
00:45:10
furniture set without looking at the rules and then matt in the directions and then get mad whenever it doesn't work right so he he was not a good one but i have um talked to other faculty that have been open to it and then other faculty that
00:45:22
are just like wow i can't believe there's this thing that can do this because some people especially if they've already adopted voicethread have kind of understand the benefits and why you would want to do it um
00:45:35
and how and i think there are some people that are like no i'm happy doing it the way i've done it and then others that have adopted it i don't especially in the last year unfortunately have not been
00:45:47
talking as closely as i usually do to other faculty members about teaching and learning because so many of our meetings and things have just been taken up with just putting out the fires caused by covid and
00:46:00
going online with very little um kind of notice and we haven't had those informal kind of connections of talking about teaching and learning and i'm about to have like a sunray come down in my way oh yeah
00:46:14
skyline run well here in portland we run from the sun whenever it comes out yeah i mean and i mean everybody's just exhausted too right um i mean we don't really have the capacity to think new thoughts right now
00:46:27
it's it's been yeah it's been one heck of a heck of a year i'm glad to be vaccinated and starting to ease back into the world yes congratulations on that you know john um there are some other
00:46:40
things going on here but john um john was also asking about this question about you know how how early can people get started doing social annotation and of course i've seen some you probably know way
00:46:52
more about the society but i've seen some great models of offline non-digital social annotation with very young people um yeah the the pals reading um peer assisted learning um starting in grade two
00:47:04
they use a lot of that partner reading and paragraph shrinking and prediction relays and so they use other components but one part of it is similar where they've read a component and then one of them has to kind of summarize or
00:47:16
take away there's also like clear collaborative strategic reading where they will work together and they go through a passage and they identify the clunks and the clicks and so the clunks are kind of those things that where's the meaning lost where am i having trouble with this and then the
00:47:29
clicks are the things that they've got right away and so any one of those kind of and that's usually from two grade two up um there's a lot of variations of this kind
00:47:41
of social annotation although it's not necessarily about digital annotation i know that there is a big ies study and i'm blanking on who has it i was at a conference um last year and they were talking about
00:47:54
doing it in a in a digital format and i was like oh my gosh that sounds exactly like hypothesis and um so it's under review but it was for two grades two through six so i'm not sure
00:48:07
um any level i think any level where you're being able to independently read text and get meaning from text i mean you could do it with peer support or instructor support if you're not independently reading at
00:48:20
that level but um it's so flexible the students can be responding to the text in many different ways yeah i mean i think that the technology
00:48:31
hurdles are can be pretty substantial but the the act of it isn't really that it's pretty some straightforward thing to do if you're not you don't have to log into something which is awesome now the kids all the
00:48:45
kids in the last year are going to be really much better at logging into something i did interview a bunch of community college students about their experiences and during the pandemic and the one thing that all of them said
00:48:57
was they didn't feel like they were very technologically literate before the pandemic but they got better during it so you know university-wide something the other and the presenter was having trouble with their
00:49:10
zoom and sharing your screen and stuff and i was like you can tell who has not been teaching once yeah really hey well maybe i know it's probably getting late for you and the sun's coming out and you're getting tired um how about this one last
00:49:25
thought here going back to christian although i kicked him off the stage rudely um just thinking about this idea of do you start a annotation process empty or do you have it filled up a little bit
00:49:39
well i go through and model for the students the types of things that i want to them to respond so i give them the prompt and the um article that they're doing
00:49:52
but because in the lms it's every course has its own annotation so even if i've used the same article before for this course it's blank so i go in and specifically do a couple
00:50:05
then i that model the kinds of things i want to say like oh wow this i think is so important because and it makes me remember that thing that we talked about or sometimes a couple of just real personal ones like wow that's
00:50:18
why my first grade teacher did that you know so that they see the kind of prompts i want to but i have to go in and do it because there is nothing um because i use it within canvas anything even if it's the same article
00:50:31
it doesn't pull forward any annotations we do go back to the same article in different modules and so then they can revisit what they did and come back to it um but all of them
00:50:44
are new in the course so um yeah and that is another i mean it's sometimes useful but it's sometimes not useful too you sort of like to have the flexibility to maybe choose whether
00:50:56
you wanted annotations to surface and chris was also like marking up the tree of um if there could be structured sort of models that could be like kind of pushed into the lms
00:51:08
environment maybe um and we have talked about that about if there was some ability to kind of um have i don't want to call them lesson plans but some kind of like models that could be you could grab off a shelf sort of that might be attached to
00:51:21
a particular reading or something and kind of deploy it um inside a class um so no work's been done on that yet but that would be it would be interesting and i think just as you build things out
00:51:34
more kind of guidance and but it's what's hard is over time for me i found certain articles with a certain amount of pages that at a certain point seem to work best but
00:51:47
again everybody's curricular map is going to be slightly different and it depends on the purpose if you could use it like some many people do for their syllabus and it's brand new at the beginning and it's not reliant on
00:51:58
previous knowledge but the the way that i've in two courses that i consistently teach we like to do it around week five in a specific way where they're starting to pull together
00:52:10
some ideas and i'm hoping that they can connect the stuff beforehand and so it's sort of this formative check and then we come back again later and then they build upon that and and that has been really beneficial
00:52:23
for for the students um so we'll we'll see but i'd imagine it varies depending on the purpose and the type of assessment you're using it for if if it's just for assessment i mean i
00:52:35
think it is always going to be helping them deepen their learning and be a collaborative component and i i really appreciate it in that session earlier when they were talking about the kind of the public nature of it and i think that's
00:52:48
really important for them to be able to take risks and ask questions especially or or challenge some components of the reading you need to make sure that that's that safe place so yeah and it's it's safer when the author is
00:53:01
dead right yeah and it's john locke safely yeah i know one of the pieces by zoretta hammond that i use and she is not dead and i'd love for her to see some of the components of you know if i could
00:53:14
actually then share it out to her but uh no it's uh because they really appreciate some of her ideas around connecting high quality instruction with equity and it's just a really powerful piece that i've consistently used that they
00:53:26
um is wonderful i like this idea though you're talking to about that annotation can be just your first reading and actually be a reason to come back to it because that's another thing that we don't really do that often except
00:53:39
scholars is come back and read it again right except when you're a kid and you have that favorite book and you read it over and over and over you know you read it 7 000 times even though you knew it inside and out
00:53:50
and then we lose it we do we do all right well and i think that along with the curricular map the reason i started doing that is i we have a couple frameworks in in reading around the four-part processor
00:54:02
and i like to use kind of that graphic and have them start to be like oh yeah this article that we read or this piece or this activity that really helped me understand that component more so that they can build on to that framework and so it's
00:54:15
it's a shorter thing but it helps them come back to it in ways that um i think shows them that sometimes you have to read especially some of the theoretical stuff multiple times before you really get a
00:54:28
solid understanding of it yeah like hegel i had a lot of clunks when i was reading angle that much not very many clicks well gosh you've taken up so much of your really wonderful time uh it was so great to
00:54:40
share this well thank you afternoon yeah but i we should probably um close up here and i'll just um let folks know that this is the um the end of the formal program for today
00:54:53
but there's one more event if you haven't had enough yet where we're having a social hour we'll see how that goes um and people are going to bring their favorite annotations and possibly some people dress up in costume i don't know
00:55:05
i saw just a rumor i heard but anyway so if people really want to keep hanging around and talking on video talks um you're welcome to do that next it's going to start in a few minutes um thank you so much again alessandra um i
00:55:19
saw raymie was in the chat he was affirming that he can connect so yeah he got it down okay so thank you thanks a lot for coming and um good luck on you know
00:55:31
whatever the next thing is like putting that research project together that's fantastic
End of transcript