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okay we are recording i'm going to admit all can everyone just well look at that wow that is crazy the number is just going up
like well look at that hello hello everybody hello good good morning
[Music] hello wow good morning wait where where were you all during the reading room huh where
were you during the reading room when we were actually going to read the book i don't remember seeing all of you there i don't remember reading the book um if you do have background music uh
just do yourself yeah go in and mute yourself if you can um what i'd like to do is hi hi everyone okay i'm just gonna let
people let people file in here so today is gonna be a special day and i'm gonna throw the agenda out the window because why not let's throw on book club um so first off
what i'd like to do is i'd like to just congratulate everyone you know this is a huge achievement and you know the amount of work
that we have done in the graph i mean in six weeks we wrote a million words over a million words and and yes like give yourself a pat on the
back yes that's crazy and i know i know it takes forever to load will you fill a form i know it takes forever do we need to fill out a form i don't
know but so congratulations thank you to everyone that made it this far and i've got bad news i've got bad news for everyone that's you know
yes we made it to day 42 day 43 we're graduating you're only just starting this is a lifelong journey and you and your communication partner you
and your dialogue partner you and your intellectual autobiography it's a lifelong journey and i'm just honored to be part of this journey with you
and so with all that being said i kind of want to allow everyone to unmute themselves as i bring our special guest up to the podium so please can you just under yourself let's let's give dr
zonke ahrens a round of applause unmute yourself [Applause] thank you so hello doc doctor orange i'm just gonna
go i'm just gonna go ahead and mute everyone now and uh any oreos at all are you sure and then dr zonke aren't can you unmute yourself
just so yeah yeah there we go so you have uh over 247 people i want to break 250. you have nearly 250 people here doctor and
i think what you've done for us by writing that book in 2017 and all the work that you did before that i mean it's it's changing the world and i think you
got to take a little credit for that and and what i'd like to start off with is um i guess you know i guess for some people that maybe don't know about uh don't know
as much about you as as others you know can you tell us a little bit about you know how you started on this journey of of bringing zettel castin and and and what nicholas lumen did in the
you know what he developed to the world like how did that all start how did that begin sure i i mean in a way um i um always feel a little bit
uncomfortable to to be put in the spotlight like this um but um i'm happy to talk a little bit about
the background of the book and how it came together and um i think the most important bit is that lumens theory
came first and he really was um one of my academic heroes and i kind of regret that i
never took the chance to go to a lecture before he died and [Music] i was introduced to lumen very early in my studies
[Music] and i had to give a presentation on a text about the autopsies of consciousness
and i was completely [Music] out of my depth um but i had the
image of myself of being able to give a presentation on a text and to be able to understand it and it took me the whole semester
to get through these 20 pages with another student and we talked almost on a daily basis and i think that's
a way of learning that you rarely have a chance uh to do um in a highly structured learning environment
and we were more or less just thrown into the water and had to figure it out by ourselves and it's figuring out the language of sociology of philosophy and you go
through the references and in the end it wasn't certainly a perfect uh presentation but
it was obvious that we were um so into it uh that uh the end to enthusiasm of it
um really came through and that was a thrill um just go through the process of having a completely incomprehensible uh text and being able to speak about it
in the end and luma never left me someone i kept coming back to
reading his text a friend of mine uh i talked to on a regular basis about luma and he he said he just needs to read lumen once in a while just to remind himself
of how thinking goes and so there are a lot of good memories of insights and more than just
inside connected to it um so this his main work um the last big two-volume book society of society um
i read on a holiday in greece and i i never left really the uh the terrace where i was sitting and the lovely old
lady who was my host um brought me coffee in the morning and after three days she said well i have the feeling you're just sitting here and reading so
what about i go to the beach if someone pops by you ran the flat out this one is touching such euros and um so that was our deal
yeah here's a question for you why i feel like like you're you're like i'm enamored by nicholas lumen why do you think he didn't why do you think he didn't take the
extra step of really carrying that message to the world because i mean obviously his his theory that he developed was was phenomenal i mean it was affecting everyone around him
what do you think stopped him or prevented him from actually taking this and bringing this to the world in a more you know broadly speaking global way you mean the technique of working with
the central coast yeah um in a way it was an open secret people knew that it was an open secret um and
if someone asked he you showed it to them but um and he wrote a little piece on on it but not that much actually and um
i one of the reasons to write the book was that i discovered it as a technique that could work for myself and i had very very little information at that
time on how it actually worked so i tinkered around with it and tried to gather the few bits together and then
i wrote the first draft of the book [Music] and put it in the drawer because i didn't feel i really grasped the
concept of it and took it out a few years later and completely revised it first of all because my understanding has developed i
had some years of experience with different tools uh some more information we're coming through especially now with the research project i know you're aware
of it from his university of um so that is of course everything just uh after his death and um
and as it always happens you sometimes you read something about something completely different but suddenly it falls into place and the
feeling of there is something that is um worth telling um becomes something you need to
write down because now you you feel people you talk about kind of understand it but [Music]
you feel there is more importance to it and um i think that's the motivation to then actually do it um and
here's a question yeah um i think with anything that you know when you do anything that's difficult when you when you do anything that's that's important there is a struggle and and my question is as you were
throughout your journey of sort of you know how to take smart notes and and your journey of you know telling the world about this i guess it's a two-part question the first part is what sort of difficulty have you had
teaching people this bottom up i say bottom up but you know what i'm talking about this sort of emergent way of of of thinking and note-taking and then also the second part would be
what sort of critical feedback have you gotten from i would say you know other people in you know that are heavily you know in the sort of zettle casting
field or or sphere um i well i think it's there isn't
much in terms of um disagreements or um eating discussions i don't experience that at all i feel most of the people
i speak to understand themselves me included as learning about it um because you have to adjust it
the system to the new tools that are coming into the market other people um have a different grasp you can learn from them so your needs develop
so i feel everyone is more in an understanding that it's a collaboration there are certain core principles about it that are worth writing down
[Music] but i don't see much of a discussion you usually have in academia like that's completely wrong and lumen
actually did it completely different i think that's very nice about it and it's also it would be a bit silly [Music]
and you have the actual satellite lumens now almost fully digitalized so there is a way to kind of go
to the source and trying to to understand i think the problem with teaching is more that there is an indifference
especially with younger students and it's just my experience that the longer you
have struggled with writing um and the more complex the ideas are you're dealing with and the more
resources you have to shuffle um the more obvious it becomes that the the way we are taught
usually to take notes in school and university um has its limitations can you expound upon that a little bit like what
to be specific how would you define that or describe that the sort of how we're taught has certain limitations um well i think one motivation of
writing things down for me is always that i'm angry about something and um not being able to give my own students a good book on note taking or writing
in general um that and it became a little obsession because i started to rent out
all the books i found on note-taking and writing in academia and i saw the difficulties of
[Music] bringing the idea of linearity together with the actual writing i experienced and um so i i felt
this is just wrong so people teach um in a way i don't believe they work themselves like that so you have all these highly
structured methods where you have to make a plan and you start with brainstorming and you read it in the book so the i had to cut
at least 12 pages of rambling on i've seen the videos yes sq4r and all this yeah so a good thing is that my editor um
took them all out because otherwise it's unreadable but i think you often start or at least i often start with writing something down because i'm a little bit angry
about that and then um you try to turn it around and describe it in a positive way not how not to do it but
rather how to do it and it was accompanied by [Music] my own research on
[Music] science and technology studies so how research is actually conducted compared to how researchers describe their
process and that always fascinated me so i saw a parallel between the disconnect between how research is described ideally
and how it's actually conducted to the way teaching is and how it's actually done so that's probably the
short story of my motivation and you can tell the story certainly in a different way and that would be um i was meant to finally
write my uh second big book and continue with my dissertation and i was stuck so i needed a side project to distract myself from it and
and i remembered this old manuscript um in the draw that would be the less heroic story of it just a way of procrastinating imagine if that book would have stayed
in that drawer oh the world you know yeah um uh schmidt from the research um [Music]
on lumad settlecast and he published at the same time so i think it's someone else i mean people started to write about that anyway
and i think like um conor as well mentioned that it's sometimes uh it's like an idea that's that
has its time and um in different fields people um yeah put words to it and i think with the change in technology
also becomes obvious that we need a different way of describing how we write because our old vocabulary is very much still bound to the linearity
of book writing and that certainly has changed so it's i think an idea that fits into our time
okay um this yeah i mean i i just wanted to start off with just sort of the history and and a little bit of a little bit more about you i feel like a lot of times when when people have you on calls or interview
you it's always like tell me how to do it tell me how to do it tell me how to do it and it's just like you know i i want to know more about what this is what this is about yes i love it you're drinking a beer you know you're hanging out it's like
this is this is the the dr oran's that i wanted to sort of show the group and um you know where do you where do you think obviously it caught on obviously you
know there was a moment in time and people picked up this book and they were very it resonated with the world so my question i i guess is really geared towards you know how does technology play into this now
as you know as what we're doing in their own book club and and and you know what what conor developed with rome research and with everyone sort of moving into the sort of cloud communities of web 3.0 or whatever that
means but where do you see technology taking this simple you know note-taking system like what what does the future look like in your in your eyes in your vision i have no idea about the
future and i think there are others here much more hands-on and close to the development um but
i really wished i had some of the tools available today uh 10 20 years ago and i mean in a
[Music] silly way i thought maybe by writing it down people will pick it up and um write some software that that i
want and but of course things work slightly different but um i think we are all students of the development of technology and
we can only see that far i can imagine that there is a lot of differentiation going on soon so because there are different needs and
when i talk to people from different backgrounds and professions um it becomes more and more obvious to me that you might need some kind of pre-structured
um either templates you can add on um openly structured software or specific software that
is in principle in in bottom up open way designed but
uh it gives you a lot of um help with um some pre-configurations say the learning curve shortens a little
bit and especially in medicine i see a huge demand and i don't know how ai
plays a role there i think there is a lot of disillusionment going on at the moment so it might go back a little bit more to personal databases where you have more
control over what kind of information you put in take out but i mean that's just speculation but my speculation is
that there will be uh differentiation going on and um yeah perfect so uh what i'd like to do now is i guess jump over into
you know i i noticed yeah i i actually have a i have a page on the shared graph i'm just going to share the screen real quick um i asked the the graduates of rome book club here
um to sort of just come up with questions that they had for you and i've got a couple here i guess i'll just start from the top and um alan uh asks well first off thank you for your time
do you have any idea when you wrote your book that it would turn into a cultural phenomenon it has with tools new tools now available that lumen did not have have you given any thought to writing another book and adapting the zettacastin framework to a tool like
rome for instance um i need to re read the second question so um i mean you always i think um
have the idea that when you put the effort into writing a book that you hope that other people will understand what you're enthusiastic about and it's
always a good indication when you feel like you want to talk about it with people and i had the same with my dissertation um but
that didn't pick up in the same way um i and i knew that that this is that might be different but no i of course you you don't connect it
that much with your own book it's more about that you see the idea and the idea is lumens idea and you're trying to describe it as good as possible
but the cultural phenomenon is obviously not the messenger the cultural phenomenon is the settle cast and then what people make out of it and
there is a fear i think because that's the way i'm structured i have to deal much more with anxiety about the things i do and the worries i have
and one of the big worries is that it's um adding fuel to this academic craze of publishing
more and more and i hope it to be more like a trojan horse that it might attract people because uh it
it is a tool for productivity um but i think it's a technology that forces you to [Music] engage more deeply with
the text you're reading and it's a technology that helps with mitigating the effects of confirmation bias and
that was my hope that the technology is being picked upon because of the uh attractiveness of uh productivity but that the main effect is not
adding to this craze of we have to publish more and more but actually taking a little bit out of the quantitative side and putting more into the qualitative side so that's
more the um the hope and the worry that's interesting because a lot of times you know it's it's also yes creating more but also consume over consuming too like just
consuming without actually digesting as well of this of the prolific amount of information that's we're being inundated with i think it's very interesting um
yeah maybe just adding to um to that because i the way i work i'm i'm of course super excited and
thankful about that people pick up on the ideas but i'm always primarily worried that it's having unintentional side effects and
one potential unintentional side effect could be that people put pressure on themselves too much thinking oh gosh now i have to i've written
always have a pen in your hand and now nobody is reading anymore for fun gosh it's i i hope um readers are relaxed with it so i'm um
putting a revised edition out wow um with not many differences few corrections of silly mistakes
but maybe also with a little bit more emphasis on um don't put too much pressure on making it right or um perfect
a productive setting because the fun in thinking is spending time with your thoughts and the thoughts of
others and sometimes it needs [Music] just being there with a book and um not having a plan in your hand and going for a walk and
um all these bits so i it's it's in my nature to worry about these things but it's also part of the feedback
that i noticed that the community can put pressure on each other um of doing it right and instead of letting it evolve and
adjusting it to your needs and keeping the eye on what's really important and that is the content and the thinking and um what you want to do with it yeah yeah
that's that's get the nail on the head have fun with it it's not about being perfect so michael walsh asks uh thank you dr aarons for
speaking with here's a few questions i'm interested in how many permanent notes did it take before you felt you had a communication partner on average how long has it taken the students who adopt the zettlecaston system
to see benefits can it be done within a semester and then what form of your yes let me go to mute them okay what form do your permanent notes take for example do
you try to coalesce the note into a single sentence or do your permanent notes extend to multiple sentences or even paragraphs and mike keeps continues with do you ever revise a permanent note or do you add a
new permanent note with your changes and how would you describe how you are using real research for your zettocastin well i can't spend as much time on each of these questions like on the first one
[Music] i think there are more coming so um i i don't know exactly because especially in the beginning i uh changed
uh the um medium and i started with pen and paper then i tinkered with html and then i went back to paper in a different format
but i i think the first couple of hundred notes are more like a collection and you look
for um connections and there are some but you remember them because yes the amount where it's where it doesn't surprise you
uh it's more you know where they are and i think the from 500 on um there's a shift um and then you need to uh figure out how to um
find them again so the index or some kind of system becomes more important and i think a couple of thousand notes and uh you're
automatically turning to your set of custom [Music] as the place where you will likely find some kind of connection
and can you go back to the green because then i can just walk through the questions um how long does it take i think it's very different very
different for um i i don't push it when i teach at university it's more like an offer [Music]
i think some people grasp the idea immediately and often already had experience of working in their improvised ways and
feeling um they're wasting a lot of resources so i feel they don't need much uh to um
be convinced and then it's a constant learning process so like i think i keep adopting and the way i work
um and i will probably still keep adopting um the ways i work and that's maybe a second bit that it's not so much
about finding the right way to do it but it's more taking signals when you feel something is not right or you're spending too much time on
literature notes then it's a feedback from the system to change it a little bit and maybe take shorter notes or to sometimes jump directly into taking a
permanent note or be more selective with your literature and if you feel you don't you you struggle with finding your way back to the resources maybe that's just an indication that you
be more diligent with um writing down where the ideas came from so i think of it more as a ongoing process but
i think the moment where you take for granted that you have your dialogue partner sitting there that doesn't take that long
i mean when you think about what would you do instead um you can't go back no no that's i i mean yeah put it in a folder
oh he said the f word uh so so dr hours what i'd like to do now is um so there's a lot of rome book club 4 graduates and rome book club 3 alumni that are joining us today
and what i want to do is you know i don't you know i i would say we have another 20 minutes or so here what i'd like to do is i'd like to just allow people that you know are graduating today
from rome book club and the alumni as well to sort of um take the floor and i'm just gonna go and stop or i'm gonna take myself off of um there are a lot of questions um yeah so
i'm just gonna let them sort of pose it to you um as they as they as they like so again if you're a rome book club three uh alumni or if you're a roam book club four graduate today
um if you want to just unmute yourself and again we are a representation of you know our community so you know kindness yielding and and and graciousness is you know that's who we are so if you
want to just unmute yourself uh we've got another about 20 minutes if you have like a specific question that you'd like to ask uh dr zonke ahrens dr arnes thanks so much for doing this for your time
engaging with your book and doing in this community has been a blessing and so i appreciate that you brought this to the world um i think the one question that i had is we focused a lot on the building of the system creation of you
know going from fleeing it's permanent note and the question that i had written in the graph there is there's a little bit of a part that's kind of missing for me up front which is if you're reading a piece of
new material and maybe there are ideas in it that you're being introduced to for the first time you're not necessarily triggering the fleeting thoughts or what have you but it's interesting you don't want to lose track of it it's something that you want to make sure is captured so that
perhaps when you have more information context knowledge later you can come back to it and understand it and so i don't want to do the the book report summary thing but i want to make sure i'm not missing these tidbits i'm pulling out as i'm reading how do you generally
approach that um i i see it as [Music] there are circles you have to add to the process so when i'm new to a topic
um i wouldn't be able to write immediately down the core ideas but because i can't identify exactly as you uh mention it you need more context and that means you
in this case um i [Music] put another loop into it and that might be that i um just posted
use post-it notes in the book because i will go through it again later and then after you read the book you kind of know okay
you put post it or underlie it or highlighted whatever you want to do this same idea on the first 20 pages again and again again because it's like the main idea of the book but he
will go on details about it later so you if you had started right away writing it down you would have listed the same idea again and again in variation
and now with a little bit more context and distance well you write it once and you have a little bit structure in your head just as you described it so i think it's
about adjusting the time and effort to the kind of book you're dealing with and sometimes you need a lot of um effort into and you
need to go through it twice and sometimes you don't need a literature note at all because you immediately see um okay that's this kind of argument and you can
add it directly into your permanent notes you um keep the reference but no need to go through these steps
you only put the effort that is required and sometimes it's little and sometimes it's a lot i guess that's the art and the science thank you very much exactly
yeah thank you mike dr erins welcome um i have a question for you about blending physical handwritten note cards with the rom format um i find the physical constraint of the
note card space forces clarity and i was wondering if you personally get this functionality out of rome thank you um thank you british is it correct um
well i i see from your background that you have [Music] an attachment to physical notes and um i
i i hope it answers your question but um i do like to write some things um in with pen and paper uh especially
literature notes or fleeting notes or project notes where i try to outline something where i want to shuffle things around i
use a whiteboard and i so i use physical notes a lot but they usually don't end up in the
system they are usually checked after a while the difference is um that when i um in the middle of a
project that i take photographs of my whiteboard because it's like the [Music]
snapshot of the structure i'm trying to figure out and this will end up in rome just as a snapshot because then i can
track okay on that day i thought about it in this way and um but not in the permanent note section so the permanent notes are
digital uh notes only is this your question or am i missing it completely um i was following you until the very last thing you said
you said it doesn't end up in the permanent notes section because you take the fleeting and literature notes on paper and then you might just write a sentence or two in rome for your
permanent notes because it's either project notes fleeting notes or maybe literature notes so literature notes are sometimes especially when the topic is new to me
i write them by hand i find that helpful but when i write permanent notes i'm always in the context of other digital notes so
i barely write completely new permanent notes almost all permanent notes i write are direct um reply so to speak to
already existing notes and so i stay within the same medium and i feel it's important to be um
yeah to to stay in the same medium thank you dr aaron hi a huge fan of your work thank you so much made a huge difference for me personally
um so one of the key point that beauhon's coaching is slow down go deeper right um so i'm looking at your library behind
you there's hundreds of books there's probably google scholar that you read there's probably book recommendations that your friends give it to you what kind of meta cognition or criteria do you use to discern
what you take in as someone who actually wrote the book up how to write smart notes um oh that's a big question and so
i i wish i had prepared for that and um so i can only give you a very general answer now and that is i think there are um
discipline specific models um i i use um and patterns i'm sometimes not very aware of but
sometimes um i think strategies um which are very familiar to you like looking for the inverted arguments and trying to um
see it from a different side i it really depends on the level of familiarity with a topic because getting familiar with a topic means also getting familiar with
the patterns you're looking for so something i'm very familiar with yeah you try to to look for the frames of the author um what i don't really do
is having a checklist like going through possible biases i don't feel that's very helpful i think it's important to keep them in mind but i think it's more about detecting okay
what kind of question is [Music] the author trying to answer here i'm not sure really if that's um the answer to your question but i don't
have a catalog of metacognitive strategies i consciously apply and i think it would also go a little bit against the idea of
[Music] trying to [Music] give the text your reading the opportunity to tell you something new and something
you have not expected so i'm worried a little bit of having fixed [Music] categories to look through
text because it might turn every text into something that is um already fitting your categories instead of expanding them
or adding to them um yeah but i think it would be worth listing what we unconsciously apply to texts just to be aware of it um
yeah so dr arms well i'd like to sort of we have like about another 10 minutes here and what i'd like to do is you know i want to highlight also the work that people are doing in this shared graph and the work the
slowing down the thinking the writing that everyone is doing so what i'd like to do now is i'd like for you dr orrins to ask the group the graduating class any questions that
you may have of their experience of sort of learning about how to take smart notes learning about zettelkasten learning about nicholas lumen learning about you and also how
what they've learned from slowing things down and really digesting what they're doing so i'm just gonna let you ask questions to the group and allow the graduates to sort of respond back yeah i think i mean there are so many
um questions i would be interested in but maybe one of the more important questions is what are the things you
find generally new in the book and what are the things you find rather which didn't surprise you which could have been left out
and what are you missing so is there something you learned here or learned in the community where you would say well this is such an important
bit of information or experience i i wish i would have learned that when i read the book i just um i suppose i just i'm not trying to have huge amounts where i just
want to sort of i want to say thank you first of all you're i came to your book first and then i came to the to rome and then i came to roman book club so i've kind of done things in the wrong order but uh it's been absolutely the right order for me
um it's interesting you say about sort of what did you know and what did you learn and what i found fascinating about your book is i kind of learned what i already knew so literally like the first few paragraphs just blew me away because
it's like this is literally what's been going on in my mind and it's now just been expressed to me in words that i can read in front of me so it was quite profound for me in terms
of getting me to that point in terms of what didn't i know what could i gain from it i'm desperately trying to get everybody else on board so i'm an academic i'm a clinician as well but i'm an academic and it's just
it has literally blown my mind about in terms of how i think how i work it's been really and i'm just trying to work out how to bring everybody else on as well and apart from just trying to get them to read the book or summarizing it i'm struggling to do that
so any tips on that would be very much appreciated because it really has changed the way i think about my work in a really positive way so thank you thank you um i guess if
what yvette said about the book being um a lot of useful and necessary information there was a lot of part of that but a lot of part of it was very much
something that oh i know these things i read them but i never found them in this stream i never found this narrative that actually makes so much sense
almost like finding a stream of notes that tell you something and talk to you in a way that you didn't expect so i feel like asking things that maybe people already knew is a dangerous question
because maybe we know one thing but putting them side by side like you did in the book it just gave lots of space and lots of
moment to think so for that thank you like is it was needed to give it the stream of narrative but in terms of things that i think it's it's
i don't know it's maybe it's just me but it's like sometimes i like i think a lot is the change of landscape of the use of the initial system in terms of
volume and quality of information there is surrounding us which brings us maybe with different challenges such as having multiple sources that
tell the same thing and sometimes they say in a contrasting way which sometimes i find uh during my my personal readings i am happy to have
different notes that say contrasting things and when they come together i can i can deal with it and then trying to understand why they're conflicting and to what extent
but when i'm doing my phd for example perhaps because of the i don't know the pressing deadlines or the weekly meetings with my supervisor i'm more
concerned into resolving that conf that conflict between multiple sources in one moment and for me is more for this specific case it's more case of
not wanting to have to repeat that conversation multiple times i just want to bring those five authors and be like free were right for this reason two were right for this reason i'm gonna say this because this is my
problem and i just want to have one note sometime because it's something very specific yeah thank you peter i mean the uh observation that sometimes it's
not the actual information bit but in a combined order that this is what it's all about and that often makes a difference between yeah you understand it and
you really understand it and um so maybe that's a good reminder that when we write it's it's not so much about new information and yeah don't have to
be too worried about not having the new information but about making this difference to really understanding it as something that
a significant or makes a difference and i think in terms of your phd development what helped me you know keeps helping me is to remind
myself that writing a paper writing a phd is not the end of the conversation you're having with
the authors it's it's a snapshot of the current state of understanding and um i mean we know that but i need to remind myself of that once in
a while and maybe that even means to put these five authors together and um move on i'd like to hear or yes yeah i just want to make sure that we can highlight
people that don't usually speak up and also offer that offer this platform for people that you know maybe are a little scared to ask a question so i just wanted to open up so if you if you haven't asked the question if you
haven't participated really just you know if you want to have this time with dr oren's day you know answer his question i want to also leave it up to people that don't usually speak out and don't usually talk so much
now they also have to out themselves is not being that's what i'm allowing for i've read all their work dr aaron so i know who they are i know who the quiet ones are
nobody is daring to speak thank you i would ask something because i i totally get what yvette was saying like you read that book and you finally like you see in front of
your eyes what i've been struggling all of my academic way with how i think and how i write but then like you explain how to do it and you explain it well in my opinion
but it seems so easy when you're reading it that for someone who is working in the academic field you're like this can't be it and then you even if you try you need like somehow
like for example this community where you're guided through it and you're getting your butt kicked over and over and over until you're like okay i have to do it like this and it
will work because the book it's like so easy and you're like this can't be it this is how i felt but it's written everything is in there in my opinion
so that's perhaps that's like a little point of how to say perhaps tell people listen it sounds very easy but you have to do it and it's hard in the beginning and
you're like this is so easy but still hard because you have to continue don't give up yeah i mean you're touching an important point because it's
a lot about unlearning and that is sometimes more difficult [Music] and it's probably one of these
simple but not easy easy things um but when you're in an environment where everything is set up for modular
learning and you develop your own workflow which is not compatible with that i think it it does
make things more difficult as if you're a completely independent researcher not under the pressure of having deadlines
or a curriculum um where it kind of clashes because the satellite um is completely agnostic to
deadlines or to plans and it might bring you to a place which is not in the application you have written so um of course there are um
potential conflicts um but this is the only thing like a fair warning to everybody who's reading the book it seems easy it is easy but you have to stick to it this is like this is it
it's working so thank you very much and it's different to different disciplines certainly yeah totally yeah dr aaron this is uh allen from las vegas i will say probably the biggest thing that i learned not coming from the
research side so i am you know network engineer by day and that's kind of the space that i work in moving from a folder structure to this type of structure was kind of jarring at first but what i learned is that you
know two things one you have to be willing to put the work in right you have to give yourself time to kind of change your thinking and then the biggest thing is the results what's helping me with my co-workers is the results that i'm
getting from implementing the system because i'm able to do things in a way that they can't so i i would say that it's been just absolutely tremendous thank you so much for up for doing what you've done and thanks to beau for putting all this
together because it's helped me to think about things completely different in a way that i never would have uh without this system and without your translation thank you alan i appreciate that and i think the community
does a lot of work there doesn't it yes uh dr doctors i do want to say um we are at one hour um i i mean i'm willing to stay on and just have open discussion with you as long as you
have the time but it's again i i do want to mention that it is it is what 10 30 your time so yeah i mean i'm happy to have more uh questions maybe i don't know however
now um i'll i'll do this let's do this let's go ahead and open it up for everyone just anyone that's here um again just please be respectful and yield when you need to you know we have you know you
could always email dr armins as well but let's keep it respectful and yeah um i don't want to call on people if you want to just unmute yourself and just ask your question you kind of have to i'll jump in and ask one both please i know
that um bo and you have spoken before about creativity and and whether this is for creatives and at first maybe you thought it wasn't um and so i've had that conversation
with bo i'm a painter and art teacher and a lot of what you're talking about with academics having trouble coming around to this way of thinking reminds me of the conflict between art critics and
artists and that the art critics talk in a way that that the artists don't really recognize i was wondering where you are in terms of thinking about how this
could work for creatives at this point yeah i think bo can give you more insight into that um i i i don't think i'm qualified
to to but accept maybe that i feel writing in itself has a creative
side of it and when i talk with a friend he is a composer we find similarities and um especially in
the need for structure and restrictions um as a precondition for creativity and beyond that
i i i don't feel i i should i don't think i don't think you should say you're not qualified i think it's more of a question of this is brian from omaha nebraska by the way dr orens
i got a sense of your inner voice in the book and i think i got the same thing from from being in this book club what was important to me was that people can really speak with their inner voice
and it's even the way that you bring in statistics and like classical classical research techniques like you know 60 of people found that you know they they have an attention span of this or whatever and then you would kind of say
yeah and that's interesting but and then you'd hit us with the real with the real points so i just wanted to say thanks for really just sharing your inner voice and and thanks to all the book club members too
um for doing that because i think that's what makes good um knowledge discovery and good research and good insights is really finding your your inner voice through all of this so thanks
thanks brian appreciate it hey i had a question um might not be completely related but um one of the things that i struggle with using systems thinking and knowledge
management tools and i'm completely obsessed with it um is that i kind of have a tendency to be a little over emphasized on the right brain analytical thinking
and i'm really hoping to find ways of leveraging these kind of kind of tools to kind of free up more of my left brain creative thinking and i would love to hear if is this something that you struggled
with as well um and have you found any solutions or anything that you could recommend to someone wanting to be able to yes love the analytical thing but also want to make sure that
i'm able to be a little bit more brain balanced yeah i i think i i um i know what you mean i i don't think in
terms of left right brain hemisphere for myself but and i think the similar struggles i have is
maybe less because of the analytical emphasis but more about anxiety of doing it right or wrong and maybe it's translatable but i think that
tools like rome with the daily page can give you this playground where you know that you don't have to
worry about mistakes and if that's too close to the final writing um i think the change in
the medium and using pen and paper or white board or a ch flip chart or whatever you have um helps me to get into a more creative
mood and sometimes it's just this silly um thing that i know that in the evening i'm much more able to come up with new ideas
and in the morning i'm much much better in detecting all the mistakes from the day before and trying to kind of work around that
um and so i i'm not sure if that's helpful but i think if you have something similar um it's probably a good idea to
[Music] integrate it into the workflow and the rhythm and [Music] i think being analytical can also be highly creative
and often when i really understand something i feel it triggers new ideas and so i'm not trying to get away from the analytical side but
more like diving more into it so you get to the boundaries of where logic kind of reaches the end point and something happens unexpectedly
hi dr thank you zonker can i ask you a question i'm committed to the um to the zerocast and i love it um
and it's a tool it's a tool for thinking hello [Music] the thing that i sometimes think about is that um nicholas lerman is a sample of one
and if the zerocarton is a tool for thinking there are all these other thinkers out there who are thinking um and do we know how they're thinking how their
how you know what note systems are they using i'd like to i'd like to be able to place lerman yeah amongst all these others and and sort of in the zerocast and
see what others are doing as well and yeah i mean if there was one project i would have loved to do is going around
asking everyone i whose work i admire how do you do it how do you do it exactly what do you do in the morning how do you sit down how do you digest the books you're reading
um i was obsessed with the idea and it's just because i'm too shy to follow up on that um but my way of understanding
is not by comparing a lot of different workflows because i because of the lack of data um but more about
the going through abstraction and re-specification so i think i became interested in cetera carson also because i saw a lot of similarities
to what historians of science describe as experimental work in laboratories and that is especially in the field of science and technology
studies especially the work of hanzio greinberger he works for the max planck institute for history of science in berlin and the way he describes
um experimental work as a form of material deconstruction um is my blueprint for understanding
the work of lumen with etc so in a way by going through abstraction and re-specification i allowed myself to see it as an example
of something more general um and it would be fantastic to see others to find that in others and see them doing the same thing and then to start to build it
um a really general sort of flexible theory of of the whole thing wow wow you're not by any chance applying for grant at the moment because then it would be very
interesting and see the outcome of that book dr aaron with all this do you think we can improve thinking that's what you seem to be trying to do
but i'm thinking can we produce more thinkers of the like turing feinman von neumann can with this approach plus others do you think
we have the potential to produce thinkers of that status i i have no idea i do think that technology
helps um because it is an external feature of our thinking
and the external features are open to design while the internal structure of our thinking i think has little room for improvement
but by adding technology to it and being aware of the um external part of our thinking i believe
technology can play a role in improving thoughts and research in the way it already does and for example
in little things like providing evidence of um counter facts or disagreements um
just by pointing them out to you and being able to see uh what's missing um just the process of deliberately
externalizing thoughts i think improves um the thinking process i don't believe in
internal tools and modification too much so like being aware of biases is good but i think i'm more on the pessimistic side like kahneman that just being aware
of it doesn't mean you're not free from yeah so augmentation yeah maybe that's a good way of putting it yeah
this is george have you have you um found that there are people who are natural thinkers like this uh the zettlecaston type thinking the
bottom-up thinking whatever you want to call it have you studied great thinkers and looked at their patterns and seen that they do that or is it all over the place
i i'm not an expert on i i know what i like in in terms of works um
i think there are similarities between the thinkers i read and i believe
they're often systematic and have found a way to deal with complexity to be able to put heterogeneous
ideas different ideas into a coherent theory system and i think the only way to do that
is by having some kind of external um brain or an equivalent of it in which way i don't know but i think without
this externalizing [Music] um it wouldn't be possible to have this kind of thinking i'm attracted to but i
wouldn't say that's necessarily the better they all had a system though yeah you know i've been studying the the world's greatest thinkers from aristotle to
richard feynman and beyond and i have never found one that does not explicitly talk about epistemology about how they get their knowledge that doesn't have a system
and that doesn't think bottom up i never found one da vinci feynman galileo all of the great great great thinkers
they they all think in very similar patterns that's interesting have you written about it i'm developing a system called mind skills
that tries to systematize these they are needless to say very complicated to systematize and rome is giving me a tremendous tool for doing so but i'm writing about
them piecemeal and slowly but i'm struck by the the um i've gotten to interview a lot of geniuses productive geniuses not just knowledge
accumulators but people actually did something with their knowledge not just memorizers and they all do this they all some variant of
coming from the concretes distilling the essentials um talking in fundamentals elon musk talks about thinking in first principles
but all of them think about thinking quite explicitly the wrong thinking it's shocking okay uh keep us posted about your work all right i'd love to know if you yeah
and if you discover anything more love to know more about it okay doctor thank you yeah dr aaron constellations for your your wonderful work in this is
really magnificent i kind of get an idea of what you're through and we really really appreciate it i know i know shimo shimon shimon has been waiting here
and then julie i see you too [Music] julie you're breaking up a little bit do you wanna julie do you want to log log out and log back in and then i'll make sure that you're next uh but shimon ah dr aaron thank you so
much for your uh this presentation for the book uh now that we have a way to build a zell cast in
in a digital realm we have we i wonder if you have any thoughts about you know having these vettel testings be shared a by people being able to go
into the process and see how a certain person got to where they got in their thought and then be can people collaborate and sh and share one that'll cast in and
what are your thoughts just on these kinds of what technology is bringing on background right i mean that's that's a huge question and i think matt is joining us today
can tell you way more about that and beau has now a recurring experience with collaboration there are other places where
this is being tried out so i've spoken to teams with very different professional backgrounds and i feel everyone is just starting
and there is the need for having some kind of um templates structure conventions um there is um
[Music] i think a necessity to have like a firewall between your personal writing and the
collaborative bit and i don't think it can synthesize or merge into each other i think
the difference is necessary but that's more like a hunch i think that's one of the exciting [Music]
experimental lines where no one really fully understands how this could work out and i mean matt can certainly tell you more about
that because um as far as i understand rome is heading in that direction um yeah but that's from my side
thank you that's awesome and then julie i i can ask julie's question she dropped it in chat so julie's question is so she's in the woods so she has bad connection right
now her question is how do you deal with questions in your zettle casting where do you put them how do you integrate them track them um well i i write them down
and i um i integrate them into my notes and maybe i need to explain that i changed the way i write in rome a little bit
because i um use the blocks as um individual notes so that
the page can become what in the traditional center cast might be a note sequence and if two notes are directly related i might just add another block
because you still have the granularity with the block references um a question would become part of that note sequence and
[Music] they are just a part of the writing itself so i don't have a special question page
i have a lot of questions within the ongoing dialogues and sometimes
um there are the ones that turn into a project and um so they are on top of my mind and um they
might move into the uh shortcut section because i just want to jump right back into that the next day
but there is no sophisticated system to deal with questions they are just part of it
dr erins thank you so much for doing this it's i've gotten a lot of value from your books and writing so um i'm actually a student and i just graduated from high school so
i'm really curious how you think about uh integrating santo casten and the education system and um i think a lot of the incentives like with grades and the deadlines like you
mentioned are kind of not as conducive to the kind of deep thinking that is required um so do you think that it's possible to
integrate the two and how would you how do you do it in your classroom if you could talk a bit more about that and like how you think me it could be taught to high schoolers and college students um
first of all in the chat someone mentioned joel chan is probably the one he has better ideas about how to deal with questions
and so now um well as a as i mentioned earlier i'm i'm not pushing the subtle character in my own teaching um but
i think that i integrate the ideas of the etc cast and the idea of non-linearity
and open process as much as possible in the way i structure my classes and my lectures and i try to be as
transparent as possible that i will jump ahead and come back to a question because this goes often against the expectations and
so the students don't become frustrated when i jump ahead i try to explain with referring the studies on learning how this can be intentional
but i have not found a way to make young students aware of what they are
facing when they are two three years in the courses and why it makes sense to start with it early
to have more tools and resources available later um i'm not very successful in that i'm much better with older students or postgraduates
who already have a feeling for the need that's my goal by the way i want to start him young okay let's go get it get get him engaged get him engaged with this way of thinking you know that way
yeah we'll keep going um hey dr aaron um i have two questions i'm not sure which one i should ask but uh maybe i'll start with this one okay it's it's a little bit of a tricky question so i'm sorry
if i put you on the spot but i can't help but keep coming back to the idea like what we're doing here is kind of incredible as somebody's saying it's like you know like a new roman forum to get new commons
for people with good faith to be able to learn from each other and contribute and i can't help but see that in contrast to the fact like all of this is built on top of like a private venture back company
and maybe it's just me but there's just like there's something weird about all of this comments being built on top of a private company so i'm curious like how you think about that and how you think about
that intersection between you know yeah private venture capital money and uh i totally get that um i would be much more happy if all the
tools um which are well designed and working for the satellite here we're open source and um
but they are not um [Music] i i don't have much of an opinion on that i think i i feel in academia
i i would like an open source alternative where you have yell a public funding of sorts um
but i've chosen rome for me myself because i think it works perfectly for my needs and quite comfortable with that and
yeah so the principles of the et cetera itself i mean they are um adaptable to
different tools so i feel as long as the programs are designed in a way that you're not completely trapped in
in the infrastructure and there is healthy competition where you have the ability to migrate i think competition is good and
of course private structures have their advantages of being able to focus on development and pushing things forward you don't necessarily
have with a more open source software so i i fully understand the um the question so i'm i'm just i'm relatively too agnostic or i'm
trying to stay as tool agnostic as possible um i don't want to [Music] bound with satellites into a particular tool
while i do see that some are more fitting to it than others and the lack of friction and the granularity
are certainly important features of that but they are not exclusive for uh for a certain top tool yeah so it's a discussion worse
um or it's a question worth discussing is i think so we have two more people with their hands up and then after that um you know we'll we'll close this out but bart and then russell
hi dr aiken hello um so one thing i think uh is wonderful one thing i think is wonderful about the digital zeddle casting is we can write as much
as we want right there's no limitation for space and in rome that's even better because it's at the block level and we can collapse things hide things
and we don't have to throw anything away but as far as we know uh luman did throw his fleeting notes away i that's my question did he throw them
away or did he keep them separately and do you think it's important to keep them do you keep them because for us i think it's it's very special the fleeting note phase i think for most
of us here is very very special yeah i i don't know much about fleeting notes for lumen because i don't think he wasted a lot of his
writing i think he um went pretty straight into writing permanent notes and he also kept his literature notes
very short which means he um had a well-developed structure um for reading um
in place i need uh the playground of fleeting notes but i i'm wary of keeping them because i i like
the um yeah to to shield the permanent notes um a little bit from my silly ideas um late at night but
i think what i understand from bose system [Music] there is a good way to keep them
as a treasure without clogging the system itself and then russell you want to close this out good thing both thank you um first off i would like to offer my
utmost gratitude to you dr arens for allowing this democratization of such a system and personally allowing me to rediscover
the joy of writing again um just to give you a background i recently graduated um from mit class of 2020 and i have basically been like
going through that kind of experience made me realize that like a lot of my friends were going over to graduate school and i was utterly terrified to continue going into academia
because of the fact that i didn't want to write a dissertation just the fact that finding my the ability to put my thoughts into words and 200 pages utterly terrified me and
i'd rather find myself to go and discover more creative pursuits to try to find myself um upon entering this book club and
discovering the system i found um your introduction to be particularly resonant in that you said in the last sentence that every intellectual endeavor starts with a note
and i couldn't help but think that you were both talking about the note taking system that you were able to put all of your thoughts and atomizer into something that could be referenced later but
um my own creative cyber you can find the notes in music i had myself a musician and it gave me like that glimmer of hope that through this method that i'm able to
kind of marry the two sides of myself the creative and like analytical sides and within discovering that sort of system go into my brain and come out of it like
my own sense of voice and slowly building that confidence um with my own voice like i was able to kind of rediscover the kinds of writing that i could write
when i was like a kid like writing stories and making sort of connections like crazy and i i i could not thank you enough and this community enough for being able to
allow me to discover that again so i i'm honestly out of words but um my question to you is um there is a lot of people within this community that
find the system to be a great constraint for creativity i'm a firm believer that um constraint breeds creativity and i want to understand how discovering the system
bringing it up into the world has transformed your view on creativity and in the way that has transformed your writing process has it allowed you to be bolder in the sorts of material that you want to
tackle within your work and the kinds of things that it has allowed you to sort of gain the confidence in tackling because of like how simple the system can be
in basically untackling any amount of intellectual output that the world has to offer well first of all congratulations on graduating at mit
and thank you for sharing your story i i don't know if working with the system has changed my approach to
creative work i think that it's it's day to long with me and it's too much of a part of my everyday life to be able to [Music]
distinguish what is due to working with the system and what is due to other factors what i do know though is that
um for me it's also a tool to deal with anxiety and writer's block and lowering the threshold
of putting thoughts into words and giving myself the trust that i can pick up the threat later and i don't have to follow
through so there is an effect definitely in terms of how i approach inner dialogue i have with
myself and so i feel it's in a way comforting to know that um whatever i do i somehow developed
something further and it might turn into something or it might not but in that way i can relate to what you said earlier that
it has an effect that um i feel for myself might might help with um with the potential that's there and getting it out yeah
yeah so thank you both can i just hop in for half a second deb just give me one second okay uh okay yeah so so dr ahrens uh you know i know
um your time is valuable and i really hope we imparted um the gratitude that we have for for you know the work that you did and and the work that you did you know
taking your your love and admiration of nicholas lumen and bringing it and sharing it with the world and so i'm just going to ask everyone to unmute and um can we just everyone just
give him a round of applause like seriously thank you i really hope i really hope that comes through and um and doctor feel free to
stick around um uh so i do want to make a little transition here um hi matt mr matt mckinley how you going hey hey hey hey
so um this was fun i think this was pretty fun right right yeah yeah um i i feel like why we while we still have people's attention you know before they all head out because dr arms is gonna leave
um i feel like what i what i'd like to do is talk a little bit about what what's rbc five what is real book club five um what are we doing here
what are we doing here i don't know i think all like i don't know what happened but so i mean i think about hot wind yeah yeah i mean when i think about what this was when we started and
you know some of the small groups of like 17 18 people showing up and then you come in this morning and there's 270 people coming to hear about vote taking and and what they're doing it's just incredible and it makes me you know
think you know genuinely what what's going on here what's what what's um i just unmuted i just muted everyone can you unmute matt yeah sorry yeah so so when i think about
that i mean clearly something amazing is happening and um you're doing something incredible so i think rbc 5 will be clearly an extension of these things and you're going to be back to host again and um run through how to take smart notes
again and really um refine the technique that you've been developing as well as the community of people that you've been um helping i think it's gonna be summer school it's gonna be like summer school it's like you know get
get like you know i wanna get as many people to understand how simple and beautiful this way of working is and listen july until august get ready for the fall semester
kovit is you know covered you know schools are reopening and i feel like it's a beautiful opportunity to again learn from dr armins learn from the community and learn rome a little bit too yeah i mean you're at the frontier of all of
them right it's it's a frontier of like uh how to use rome in multiplayer settings that's really helpful for the team to learn in a context of use and seeing it actually happen in the real world and some of the problems
that emerge from the kind of pioneer mindset it takes to be at the frontier doing those types of things as well as you know genuinely rediscovering and recreating like
the idea of a book you know um what is a book um and how is it different historically to what it is today if you put everyone together sharing their thoughts and writing their thoughts together the um
the entire thing becomes different i think one of my favorite articles is um a paper by stephen jacob called what is what if anything is a zebra and um that's been on my mind lately when i think about book club because i
think what if anything is a book and if you emerge from the constraints that have historically held a book in place in terms of what it is new things become possible and seeing everyone write together and share ideas
um it feels as though the concept of a book is fundament fundamentally at play here when we're kind of working in rbc so i probably expect those things to continue
in rbc five but more importantly though we also recognize that we've actually only done um four books so far right and i think there's google did a study about 10 years ago how many books there are in
the world in the world and there was about 130 million so if you think about it in the context of that we're like really a small way into it and i think it's time to kind of
um push off a bit from here to try and find some new ground i think the kind of the um the standards and the format is stabilizing we've done a lot of experimental work over the last four book clubs from all
of the community and it feels as though it's getting easier um in terms of the ability to do it to host it um and use it as a mechanism for discovery both
of ideas and of each other in terms of your own ideas so yeah but hold on well hold on like rome book club means i have to make a video every day right wrong book club means i need to i need i need to lead like four hour
reading rooms and and live sessions right it means that i need to be a trained professional actor and everything like that right it means yeah not everyone's a maniac though yeah like how simple is it it's
incredibly simple right no i mean i think if you think about it it can be um just a better way to read a book that's probably what i think and if you're familiar with the idea of reading books then yeah a lot of the things have stabilized how to structure the
multiplayer graph um you know how to work together in terms of like a communication in the graph so um i don't think it's that much of an extension um from you know just reading a book
and working with others so that's probably um i think it's easy and obviously we'll be here to help people through it too um but the thing is we're looking for now i think is is actually the host like who are these people going to be
we've got you know you and matt's been very important uh in the previous ones too and he'll be here to help um in rbc five as well but we're looking for new people
and um yeah it's time i think bo yeah i mean i mean i really look at it like it's it's rather like i feel like what what what's been going on with how to take smart notes and this huge dojo or this huge
sort of large group format is one thing but you know i i think it's as simple as you and a couple of friends saying hey i want to host their own book club and and you know be having a shared graph
and all you need to do is host a weekly meeting and you know tend to the shared graph throughout the week and you know over the course of six weeks yes you consume a book but then you also have a frictionless
writing tool to write in to sort of put your thinking into as you're reading that book and i think that's what excites me and i don't know i i like i've done a little temperature checks and everyone
thinks that it's this large ordeal but i don't think it is at all i mean i think it's rather simple it's a shared graph you you find a group of friends you pick a book and then you reach out to matt mckinley
you know and you go i want to run a book club yeah um i actually put together i put in the chat now i'll put in a um a type form for anyone who wants to actually host one um so i'll just uh put it in the chat
now so if you're keen to put just let me know and we can kind of set up the admin of it and we can also also uh set up the limitations in terms of how many people you want to actually work with et cetera
so we're kind of we're still in the discovery phase we're not entirely sure as sanka said in particular in terms of multiplayer it's it's um it's early stages there are a lot of people around the world starting to explore this
and certainly i feel like we've been very pioneering um in rbc particularly but um but it's not gonna um stop so you know like there's a chance to continue as well and
this feels like the next bit so really looking forward to um seeing who who's keen to do it and and would love to have as many as possible and what is the timeline look at it looking like uh looking like again yeah i think we're gonna run from mid
july so we're going to take um a month off bo um you probably won't you'll probably be with another video on the day after or something like that but but normal human beings who
actually live in the world um yeah uh we'll take a month off and then we'll start in july so probably mid july by the time we go it'll go for six weeks and then there's gonna be like coaching sessions and like workshops to help get people
up to speed uh who do want to lead a book club correct yeah be very much supported um one of the great things about it is the community and that'll be very much the same with the actual um people who are running book clubs as
well we'd hope that we've learned a lot we've got a lot of tacit knowledge in the process as well so um we'll be able to help you through a lot of the processes of that and administratively that's how we can help with rome as well kind of
i'm helping set it up and um promoting it to people et cetera here's a pointed question who's who who's who who's wrong book club's competition starts with an a um yeah i mean amazon
i like a formidable antagonist yeah but i mean it's it's early stages and certainly um like it's it's more about community as well right like it's about unlocking the ideas of a
book from just something that's written and transmitted to you and something you buy and occasionally highlight stuff if you remember to actually a book coming alive
through community and interaction and writing things as opposed to just reading them which you know transforms the ideas um on the page awesome
thank you matt mckinley uh you know the originator you know amazing and letting us do what we do as rome book club leaders and you know i just want to say beau
thanks to you particularly it's been incredible to watch your energy is infectious and just um just a black swan i think that was the expression i very much feel that in terms of both
energy capacity to do things commitment and just more insight so um yeah very much appreciate it i received that but i want to say one thing i'm just gonna unhighlight you here i'm gonna
unspotlight myself as well you know we are um by the way celebrating this is actually graduation day for rome book club
four and hi hi everyone hi you did it 42 days of intense arduous mountain climbing up the hill and then
enjoying that plateau and walking back down and what i want to do above all else is i want to celebrate everyone that accomplished that and and even if you're catching up
you know at least you're on the progress towards that and you know i know matt mckinley is still here i know dr zonke aren't still here but really i want to switch gears and really just focus on
us okay it's been an honor and a pleasure to watch how much you all have transformed and what i want to do is this okay i know we have some people that are that are joining us that don't know anything about rome book club and
and you have others that are alumni but really i just want to limit this to people that are graduating today with their own book club for how to take smart notes group and
i just want to open it up to us just talking to each other and you know just unmute yourself i think i need to allow that actually hold on um you can just unmute yourself and you
know like i said we are a reflection of our community so you know selflessness yielding when we need to and let's just you know celebrate and i just want to have you know the next 30 minutes just
be this time where we can talk about what we learn talk about what we struggled with and also you know the the the community that is formed behind that as well so please okay bo
i wanted i want to jump in here and and and thank uh dr aaron so much because it was he um doing our couple of one-on-one
sessions that he had with me that opened my eyes to the existence of rome from research so dr aaron i don't know if you remember me or not it's been over a year but so much i i appreciate it
thank you so much and the other part of it is what you what you've introduced to the world and what the wrong book club um for has meant to me i mean
nobody has said anything about it but this is an answer to alzheimer's or the onset of alzheimer's it's the idea of keeping your your mind and your brain
your thinking active so that you don't fall down that shoot um of inactivity and and and you end up losing yourself you know so wow
thank you i mean i'm behind i'm not you know but i'm but i'm chugging along i'm talking along i will i perseverance is my middle name so there it is
thank you thank you hey bo i think what adequately describes it is the one lesson you had one day where you said we started at the bottom and now we're here
yeah how does it feel how does it feel how does it feel compared to day one man it feels good and it and i know now why you were doing what you were doing to us in the very beginning right if it wasn't for that
we wouldn't be here right it wasn't for the process and having to get there and think differently and for me i with certifications and tests i come from an environment where it's like right answers right you get the right answer you move along
having to adjust to the fact that there isn't a right answer right the right answer comes from you was was changing life-changing so thank you again if you want to speak just yourself yeah yeah i wanted to thank you
yeah the experiences of opening up uh especially you know as we started this journey were revelatory for me to be able to break through essentially which was just a giant
writer's block and i felt like that has allowed me to really start to start this journey and um some of you know i had a couple
of bumps in the road i got injured and may 7th and uh i was just starting to feel kind of better last week but then i had to have my surgery which kind of took me back so i'm actually feeling good today and i
feel like i'm all ready now to you know you know finish the finish everything and you know i see the light at the end of the tunnel but i'm still traveling down that tunnel so i just wanted to say you know those exercises though
were the breakthrough for me um i know now the training wheels are off and i'm still trying to get to my first permanent note but i'm gonna keep doing it that's it thanks thank you more of a
question the statement i'd love to hear if anybody fancies reading out their day one statements fascinating going back to me my day one statement if anybody likes what they wrote or
agrees or disagrees with it yeah i've i've read mine actually i've read the whole uh the whole page of mine completely today and i'm i'm really satisfied that um i
i topped everything i wrote in my my hopes for day one i mean the statement we said you know how how successful am i at day 42 and i couldn't have dreamed of what
what happened to all this um this exercise so i'm really thankful for the community and uh for whatever came together and um i'm i'm i'm blown away by
by how much i learned through the 42 days and how much i enjoyed spending the time here with all of you in three hours up to the night here in germany um so i'm missing that one but i'm
getting more sleep i guess so that's that's that's a plus there but uh i'll be back for rbc5 so uh yeah i really enjoyed it but uh it's it's it's really really great um
that i now have a system that is so flexible and that i'm now thinking about how to how to adapt to it and you can add and new stuff to it so i'm really looking forward to to growing with it
so thank you for that and and thank you patrick too i mean you were you were always there to help answer questions for the community and you're you know always showing up for the reading rooms and it's like that those little actions really helped
keep everyone buoyant especially during the hard times so thank you personally patrick you crushed it thanks hey folks uh i'm i'm not uh i'll be quickly uh i'm bruno from brazil i
just want to thank you everyone uh it's it's been a awesome awesome days with you uh i love to participate and i i learned so much with all of you and
i just want to say thank you bravo uh i i have my last poem for the rome book club four and um this
is um this is for both halves of the book club so it's actually uh this is two and about matt rockwell and ball
so it's it's both of you guys and it's called uh the magicians a man of thoughtful passion
a man of passionate thought two healers word mages shared their lives beared their souls and led by their example a sensitive seer and a fiery prophet
a bard of the beautiful and an expert of expression a reader of roles and a player of parts one led us into nature where we found
our true selves and became a community one led us upwards to the peak of performance where we each became an oracle exchanging sacred truths
together they took us to the cutting edge as we all hand in hand step boldly into the examined life the life worth living growing together
walking witnesses a caring community carrying one another toward the life that is yet to come on the on the heel of what joey just
shared in his poem one of my deepest yearning is to be a person of depth a person of truth a person of beauty and and passion
so my methodology in the past has been accumulating more and more knowledge right after a phd and everything just accumulate more and more stuff and what this book club has done for me
personally has been just bose ruthless compassionate coaching about just like going slower and go deeper
and having also the community support of just in constant encouragement of hey transformations around the corner if you're wanting to go deeper oh it's not deep enough go deeper right and it's
it's the is the to me is the path i've been looking for uh it seems obvious in hindsight but i'm just very appreciative of how now i have
a way to get to my own truth my own articulation of what that is and share with the world so thank you all my vision is that through the excellence
of our work we all go forward as somebody mentioned before i forgot who it was we all go forward with such high quality work
that people say how the hell did you do that and then we tell them because if you walk up to them and tell them they don't want to listen they got to ask and the only way they're
going to ask we make them ask for the excellence of our work so i applaud all of you and really looking forward to some wonderful stuff coming out of us
i love what george said it's like how did you get in shape how'd you get swole i went to the gym and i worked out no seriously what'd you do i went to the gym every day and i ate right no tell me what did you do i went to the gym every day and i ate
right that's how i got where i'm at right they don't believe it they think it's some kind of magic it is kind of in a way but it isn't it's it's reproducible magic you know
i'll tell you as a magician it's it's learnable i mean that's kind of the same that that event was saying right um like when you when you read wasanka
wrote uh it looks maybe too easy to be appliable thing is that you actually need to do it consistently it's just like the gym right you just need to do it
straight on for years and you know it's i'm glad somebody used the gym analogy because the really important aspect of the gym to focus on is the cross-training
because every mental skill affects every single other mental skill yeah it's like yeah you have that weak link it's going to impact everything else so you need to work on one
and also the other [Music] i think the way i feel about this at the end so my day one writing was very
simple i hadn't yet rocked the concept of what it was we were doing here and how i was supposed to to go through all this and you know the thing i said about 42 days from now is mike you attended all the sunday sessions
you feel comfortable growing your fledgling xettlecast and practice from here you're excited about how this new superpower will help you on your journey into knowledge and wisdom and i think i missed
maybe one of the sunday sessions or something like that but like i mean nobody bats a thousand first of all and second of all the thing that kind of strikes me about this is um this this zen koan
uh before enlightenment chop wood and carry water after enlightenment chop wood and carry water and so it's kind of like before rome book club
read and write and after rome book club read and write and those aren't the same thing it's not the same thing but if you look at it from the outside you may not understand that there's the transformation it's
like it is like magic it's like alchemy something has happened internally and and there's a change so much like i was saying
super early on you go across you know like the circle and where you end up is basically where you started but it's not the same place and and i think that that's ultimately
how i feel about this journey that's what happens when mike says something well on that note
how do you follow mike how do you follow that is josh here um give it a go come on all right yeah sorry i'm still on mobile so you're probably picking up another mic but anyway i walked back in the apartment
walk of the dog so i will uh i'll just read you my day one because i thought about just kind of summarizing it but i will not so you'll get the unedited uh me from 40 some odd days ago so
today is nearly over on this side of the pond because i'm over here in uh on the right side of the pond however the small action i'm committing to today is carving out time perhaps an hour boy was i wrong each day
to learn from and support others now this may be folks who are ahead of me in the learning curve and have found things that i have yet to discover or behind me searching for something that i may have found the idea is to look outside my own
bubble and find a way to help another person make their journey a little bit better the added benefit and perhaps a selfish one in some ways is that i will also learn and grow during the process
uh totally true by the way not the hour button not the hour part and then uh if i could see myself in 42 days this was pretty good uh it was a quote to myself that said uh keep the torch
burning brother says you never know what you're gonna find until you finally do so uh that's that brackets it might be square bracket or wiggly bracket or whatever bracket you to use because i use a bunch of
different ones now i think i'd fired off a twitter from inside of rome today i was like what i saw i saw that what what have i become oh my goodness yeah
so that's uh yeah that's it that's my offering so i i like i say often every time we we sit down i've i feel like i've taken far more than i've given but uh if if i could help out one person in some
small little way then i've met my goals so thank you thank you all thank you everybody whoever's listening oh and a little little thing i'll put on here at the very bottom and i even bolded it because i just
learned how to bold at this time by the way it says if you're reading this little bit comma smile it's a great day to be alive so i'll close on that yeah that was so good
that's so good joshua thanks um i am resistant to reading what i wrote on the first day um but i will just read it uh encouraged by joshua hey man you keep stepping up and you are
learning it doesn't have to be a grind i gotta tell you it's such a relief to know you have a system that you trust your creative powerhouse and it's coming from a place of serenity
um and i you know i i put in uh a zettled a permanent note today that was from myself it was the first time i wrote one that wasn't from something i read and that it just felt like a new superpower like i'm allowed to make a
permanent note and crystallize a thought that comes from myself and it doesn't have to be perfect at first i get to expand it come back and then it's a thing that fits here with the stuff from the authors you know um
that's special and and i also just wanted to say well i had the floor here that that first meeting when i saw bo for the first time and there was just like so much fire so much excitement and i was like oh this
is what i wanted from rome you know i took some other courses i was learning the stuff and it was exciting but to be in a community of people who are excited and fired up is just that's that's that's the life i
want to be living so thanks for that beau and everyone else who's been a part of that and i'm excited to go forward we do have community by the way we do
have a community after this too by the way i just want to mention um relevant notes i put it in the shared graph sign up for that and then i do plan on you know there was like there was donations from rbc
3 that we put in a little kitty and what i want to do is i want to create like a a kajabi site where i'll have like a landing page uh it'll have like again i don't take any payments it's just donations only
right donations or sponsorships so i'll have that it'll also have all videos and what i'm also thinking is basically with rbc three alumni rbc4 alumni have it where you know maybe like twice
a week i'll do like these group coaching sessions or one-on-one coaching sessions for the alumni and so basically you can learn from everyone else struggling through whatever they're struggling through
and also have like a central location where people can just have resources where um they don't feel like they're alone you know hitting critical mass and and going to that process so all of that is
in the shared graph if not shoot me a dm i'll send you a link to the the type form or the uh google form and let me just say one last thing too um you guys don't know it but i i had an i
jumped on the call an hour earlier with dr sonket ahrens and i showed him what we're doing and this is the first update since probably december january since i since i talked
to him and this is good this is really good and all i'm gonna say is break the rules hi andrea break the rules that's all i'm
gonna say okay once you learn the rules break the rules do you need a fleeting note maybe not do you need a reference note maybe not do you want to add an argument maybe not do you want to add a hashtag over here maybe you don't even need one
all i'm saying is let it form fit to what you need and i'm convinced that that little sm simple lightweight structure however you want to mangle with it however you want to make
it form fit to you what you need and what i also realized was that if you have like i i who was it um shauna shanna is she here
but like what shawna was going through where she has like 20 books that she needs to read in the next month you can whatever you want to do do it like if you want to just highlight it put it in add it to your
zeddle casting do it and that's all i'm going to say and you don't have to do any of this alone and if anything i would ask that you bring that back to the relevant notes group so we
so i can learn it so i can teach it to people right and like i said like like everyone has been saying we're on the frontier of something here so last night i was on a call with andrea kramer and
she figured out how to do what happens after you hit a thousand permanent notes she doesn't have a thousand permanent notes but we figured like she figured it out she figured out this is how you do it oh okay you just make an alias you block reference that add it onto a page
and so scalability wise check and no one thought of that yet that was andrea kramer first so like i'm saying it's just the brilliant minds that are here are going to be the ones that forged
that path and got the thumbs up from dr sonkey irons you're getting the thumbs up from me now it's time to go out there and make it form fit to you but anyways let's keep going with this like this is awesome i just love seeing all these
these faces and i just loved the growth but yes we'll continue all right while we're all here taking [Music] time to just read our first day kind of
pieces um i'd like to read mine as well so um damn wow being active in this community has really paid off being active with so many people's
thoughts and stories has allowed us to make connections we wouldn't have otherwise had who knew building bridges could actually be fun after all so um i would really like to take this time to just like
give my personal thanks to the people that i have interacted with in this community um and just starting with you know where that sense of community really started for me was with the rum reading room
so fun fact i actually did not attend the first live session and i had no idea how i like would be able to get that entry into this community until
i just like decided to hop in being like 17th in like the reading but you know who gave we didn't even read the book is dr arnold still here no he's not here he's not here
that's right i distinctly remember okay and i distinctly remember the feelings that i felt that first day because i was nervous as just like sharing my thoughts because like i i wasn't like aware of whatever the hell
was going on within the first five days and just like catching up with those things it was really a lot to just like dive in and just like everyone was like on their a game and just like getting all these references like taking stuff out of the book and
just like getting through the materials just like what how the hell do i insert myself into this and it wasn't until rbc mom nikki dix comes in and says hey
you need to come in and you you need to just like spread your wings and fly and oh my god if it wasn't for this lady right here i you know she's my boy that's
making my mama proud you know it okay oh my goodness um and i could just see it just like grow from there like everyone just had so much to bring into the table allen with your constant references like
talking like trying about freaking marvel references like it's crazy the amount of connections this man makes in like literature and media it's crazy like hats off to him and
let's see who else is here um mike newton i know you came in over like the first half of the the rome reading rooms but i i could tell already like you were really just like you
thought a lot about a lot of things specifically i i read your um articles that you did about like zen t and i was just amazed the amount of like insight that you had engrossing yourself
in that practice and like i'm so excited to see what you're gonna bring with that um patrick dude i didn't know you're an actor holy crap like you have like i feel like you have like
a really weird life that like you hide from us yes i do you can see me in women's clothes if you come to hamburg
oh my god on stage on stage yeah okay we're gonna have to put a pin on that okay can someone make a reference note for that please thank you um oh man
and andrea when you like gave that example about like how you wanted to be hermione growing up it really like gave me that like foresight to just like talk about like stories and things and just bringing that to the table and just
you know it's crazy what you're doing in the medical field like some of the times like i'm just in awe of like how much do you got going on in there but um i'm so glad that you were able to like um
be a part of that rome reading room in that second half martina hello i got your dms and thank you so much for sending me that um after the um
uh was it the coaching session that we had i ended up making like a little like reference note for that and so you really inspired me with just like the short words that you have like it really meant a lot for
me in those fleeting moments shimon oh my gosh shimon dude were you the one who told you that you're like a paratrooper at some point in your life
was that you or like gave that example yeah dude i can't believe that was the one thing i'm glad i stuck with that because that like fact is just insane and the fact
that you're also like a no coder like i feel like we have like a very similar vibes and just like how we're able to you know have that sort of field but then just like also have like this weird crazy i
mean i could just go all day just like listing how everyone here is just so crazy and different like i'm excited just to see like who the hell we're gonna bring in next like oh my goodness grace
um michael walsh mr michael walsh bro hello um your voice is so goddamn and
you know um i really want to learn more about like the kinds of stuff that you did as like a lawyer and also like uh like synthesizer band musician i know your twitter bio is like looking for a fan so i'm wondering what kind of
band you want to form in the future so like still looking [Laughter] um let's see who else is here um julie oh yes miss freyberg
i remember you coming in in the first reading day and you um gave some insight that i think um was bleeding in from braiding sweetgrass and the way that that vibe changed so much
like it also gave me that additional headwind to like really share um what was going on in my mind so thank you for like elevating that room into something that you know allowing us to continue
weaving into whatever sort of things that we want to cultivate in this community um let's see giocomo hello man i know um i haven't really talked to you a lot
but um with the like coaching session stuff like i really got to learn at least a little bit about you and you know now that we're all alumni i'm excited to like get to know you a little bit better
um let's see who else katie bronson power couple the men and women from hawaii hello oh man i'm so excited that i have your husband as part of our rbc tribe with
david we're gonna we're gonna some up man like it's crazy i'm excited especially david yes i'm not forgetting you david i'm i'm very tempted to like go in
and just like be a nomad with you for like six months because that sounds hella exciting and you know my sister's also like doing the nomadic thing and so like the more that i get involved with like all of these people like the more that i would just be like
it i'm just gonna like go and get a cruiser and just like live off the land um man let's see let's see russell russell what's up sending uh
man this is this gratitude bomb you're dropping on all of us is right amazing and um if i could jump in you know [Music]
i mean you can just go down the whole list right we there's just so much gratitude in this group and and i think that's what's running through me now um i'm here in one of my favorite places in the world
uh actually it's a different island that i normally live in um i'm in the big island and i'm with one of my favorite people actually my favorite person in the world my wife here katie
and i found also one of the most amazing communities um in the world to share this experience led by the audacious uh mr bohan
and um i forget you know i want to recognize in the spirit of gratitude the people who aren't even in this room in this zoom chat in hawaii we have this practice called
the uh and i think in other traditions the empty chair and that empty chair that is always at the table that represents our ancestors
uh that our wisdom has come from that represents our future generations to come and that truly in this present moment we are connected to
that past and and to that future and you know just within this network family of people um maybe i haven't connected with each of
you directly but indirectly you've influenced someone here that has influenced me and we're all connected and one of the things that you know this book club has done for me
is to help discover why this idea of aloha means so much to me and a fun fact for all you uh technology people uh
did you know that back in almost half a century ago the 1970s a technology was developed here in the islands at the university of hawaii called alohanet
and alohanet is now the standard protocol that establishes the initial link in our all of our wi-fi our satellite cellular datas
and in many ways what i shared a few weeks ago about this miracle of technology connecting us truly it is aloha that connects and
you know i came into this book club really saying that i want to just be heaven be in heaven on earth that's what i wrote where my wife self can play in boundless creation and joyful
celebration of the miracle of life and isn't this a miracle i found a old photo of myself when i was just three years old playing on a plastic laptop
little did i know that 30 years later i would be jamming on my macbook pro building a zetto casting but maybe the seeds were planted back then for me to create this heaven on earth and uh
that's what i desire out of my zettle casting is to allow me to really bring my wise self into the world that has the energy and the thoughts and the
consciousness of those thoughts that can heal and that can bring the end of suffering uh one step at a time one person at a time one community at a time and
this tool is is enabling that um you know bo you talk about building a critical mass in our personal zero castings and i'm gonna push to get to that point as
fast as i can as the turtle that i am um and patiently going through that process um and you know it made me think about
i really feel we're in a inflection point as humanity we're reaching this exponential because of the convergence of technology
and consciousness and the tools that we're building you know will be as good as the consciousness we bring into them and
i was going to ask this to uh dr aaron's but i think this is a question for bo and all of us individually what is the critical mass
that we need to create as a global family in applying the principles of zettocastin
such that we create that tipping point such that the simple idea that was a shipping container can truly transform the world forever
and we're at i think that forefront each of us doing our own thing and just so proud to be part of this community it's been transformational and uh sending my aloha to all of you
thank you so much love you guys want to answer that i think george already answered it though i think it's no you can't tell people they have to
see it the critical mass is they have to see it everyone around us has to see how much we've changed as we see ourselves change i love you guys this is yeah
and we love you bow yeah yeah speak speaking of that speaking of that the uh um this whole idea of change it's uh is uh really hitting me pretty hard
i just wanted to to point out something that that that i've been thinking about uh and that is um i knew about
lumens method i experimented with it i had actually read sake's book which i thought was very interesting he experimented with it
but it wasn't until this book club and the methods that you used though that it really hit home starting right in the beginning
with those early lessons about basically being mindful and and and deciding what you want remember everyone remember that question right from the beginning
what is it that you want because if you're going to read with intention you're going to read with that those thoughts in mind because that's the only way you're going
to reach a critical mass and and take all these permanent notes you're reading with intention based upon what you want you're looking for answers of of the questions that are always
already within you are already within us and so it it i've done all those things but it wasn't until i got here and and bo you made it possible
as well as everybody on this call because it was the combination it was i really think it was that first reading room too that i just said well i just can't believe this
uh community is doing this but bo honestly you put this whole thing together and you you led it and i am i'm going to be forever grateful um to you for that and i'm
i'm hoping i'm hoping that you are able to uh do your move to texas and would love to take a peek at your zettelcast and about
screenwriters and screenwriting i think that that is so fascinating it's not my dream but it's a fascinating dream i would love to look at that so both thank you very much and thank
you to everybody who's participated i just loved every minute i loved every minute so much that i tried to actually sign into the reading room this last
thursday uh because i i must have i i know i heard the announcement that there wasn't gonna be one but i couldn't quite believe it i really wanted it to happen so there you are thank you as well yeah
i just want to take a moment i mean thanks so much beauty for everything that you've done i mean with the group and getting us together and getting songkai here and i was i was thinking about like a geek reference right i've made a lot of them i think i've got the perfect geek
reference for you so you think of like a movie like the bourne identity right a lot of stunts do you know who the stuntman was no you don't think of a movie like any rock movie like rampage or anything he's
done do you know who the stuntman was no you don't but without the stuntman behind the scenes you don't have the action sequences and you don't have the movie right and that is essentially what you are i mean you've been working behind the scenes
to make all of this here possible and without you behind the scenes and people like matt behind the scenes doing this there's no feature film there's no production it's a bunch of great actors standing on stage which you know about but the explosions and the action all
that stuff doesn't happen so for you being you thank you for that one last bit of t wisdom for me which is that t is actually a group activity as when we when we practice it in the tea room
much like how you can't have the x movie without the stuntman the host cannot make tea without a guest and the guest cannot have tea without the host and the strict rules of comportment that
we all follow in the tea room what it is essentially is it's it's performance art and it's it's a group attempt to bring about something special and in the parlance of tea we call it
ichigo eca that's a once in a lifetime meeting and this time this space the thing that we've been doing here together virtually and in person on these calls
it's a once in a lifetime meeting it's been a sustained six-week once-in-a-lifetime meeting but that's what that's uh none of it would have been possible without every single person
in here coming in and trying to contribute and give what they had to give and uh and so folks who some folks have said that they haven't given much they've only taken
that's not true uh the fact that you've been here the fact that you've done it the fact you've made it this far that's your contribution to yourself and to everyone else so i just like to thank everyone for the presence that they've brought to the exercise
it's this would not have been anything like what it was without every single person being who they are in this space and uh and trying to go on this journey for themselves and for everyone so thank you
thank you mike i want to say something yeah thank you mike yeah for your every emotional moment and thank you everyone and i want a response to bronson
and michael and aloha i use this one [Music] okay so i wanna thank you everyone
and you are talking about collection yeah i think if you look at yourself as a blog in raw you are connecting
just like the blogs yeah i feel i'm built inside the room and connecting with your guys i'm so grateful to share with you and nikki allen
and everyone else and i also sent myself i want just like mike you told can you draw the tea with guests and a host but sometimes you can enjoy
the tea all by yourself yeah right i'm not the master of tea but i enjoy drinking teas so i enjoy discussing with you but
sometimes when i reflect i do i enjoy the minutes i'm sitting here writing and sharing my memories
with maybe no one even we shut down the sheer graph when you build your own z question you can still feel and still feel that feeling you talk to
yourself and i remember last time the group's issue allen says how to stop the bleeding notes to be honest i don't know when to stop
but ireland tells that when you feel good you stop leave some uh taste like the tea leave some taste or the fragment
with you that's one thing i think i live right now and when i look back my fleeting notes i feel that flavor or the taste of your thoughts
and when you go back you can pick up the sweet that's a great thing and i want to thank bo the director to connecting
all us blogs and let me see one thing the last it helps me to refine myself truly about reading and writing
especially writing i once organized some small reading class we talked about what you read and uh how about a writer writes what kind of thing
kind of like analytic very admire academic writing but here with the fleeting notes you start to think about yourself
and present yourself i think that's one most important thing i've learned in this club you are talking with your own feelings you are allowed to share your
emotions mike that's great for you yeah it's forbidden kind of in my culture you share your feelings
yeah but now i'm so open here i feel safe here thank you both for this environment and everyone i yeah i almost cried sorry yeah i want you
yeah i want to thank you all that's all yeah for sharing all my all those thoughts and feelings thank you
um hey bo i want to jump oh i'll say this real quick and it gets sold can you put yak saying is it as a character for me please can you write him into the script i think he gave us
he gave us a glimmer of something too as a as a korean american growing up it's like no we don't we don't talk about any of this and i feel like this could also be that cultural bridge to so many different you know
nationalities and cultures but yeah i think there was a there was a glimmer of what you were saying that just really resonated with me yeah sometimes i'm a non-native speaker so
i kind of step up to speak something thank you for tolerates my yeah not so good english thank you we understand we understand what
what you're saying underneath thank you i wanted to jump in um show my gratitude a little bit uh i
never imagined that on the internet two and a half hours into a zoom call with 79 people um would have this feeling i
i you know um my heart's beating um like i've been in many conscious circles in person
um felt connection uh felt this feeling and and never did i imagine that somewhere in the corner of the internet
uh i'll get to feel that um and so thank you for that and and yeah and i just one other thing i'm thinking is that i i
really was glad that sonka said that uh it was a tool to deal with anxiety and then he went on to say like in writer's block and putting thoughts into words
and etc but like it's pretty pretty amazing pretty amazing like a lot of i'm not an academic and i'm not sure i'm not conducting a research right now
or um you know come up coming up with my own theory of things but but i definitely you know developing a stronger mental
capacity and you know body of knowledge and hopefully harnessing that uh and and and i greatly benefited from this being a
shared experience rather than a personal one um learned from each and every one of you um like in this screen that i'm thinking so much breath
and wealth of knowledge and of culture and of experiences and everything um and yeah i would love to see each and every one of you in a room uh
in a zoom room or in a real real room one one point or the other oh my god hi let me just jump in i
just want to send a warm hug for everybody in this community i know this is a time we don't do that so much as we used to but a warm heart is for me as a
brazilian is one of the best ways to to show appreciation to show love and i just wanted to
just say thank you for everybody for bo and everyone in this community and i hope to grow in this community
much more than i have grown so far and i just feel i still feel like just a tiny portion of it then i want to
to share more and and talk to you guys every day more and i have to grow so much to get there but i i think i'm still in the way and
i hope to to participate even more in this new community we are forming and i want to see you there and that's it warm hug for everyone thank you warm hug back and just like
post midnight ramblings of somebody who has been awake since 4 30 this morning for my one to one coaching session so sorry if i'm struggling to find the right words
but um just big massive thank you to every everybody on here and especially for bo for teaching us the rules that i advise now everybody to as soon as they know the rules break
them and yeah and so this is one thing like break them as soon as you understand them you know why you're doing them and you find something new try it out and then ask oh if it's working and then you have to
prove it and if it works then it's going to work i'm pretty sure you have to spend an hour and a half getting me to get give you the green light we were getting we were doing our best
to get underneath it but i think it i think it's unbreakable i know i already know you figured out after a thousand per minute notes i know you figured out that out but the other part yeah i just need you to prove it yes i'm
going to prove it i'm going to and so hey andrea andre are you good are you going to put that in the shared graph so that we can benefit from that i'm really interested in that question
um yes totally but first let me experiment a little bit with it and as soon as i know it works i'm willing to share it okay 100 percent because it'll be faster if
everybody shares it and you mean like everybody is trying to do the same thing at the same time yeah yeah and the same mistake at the same time i don't know if we have to do that we have to ask bo if it's okay
yeah but i think but i think all of us we we do different experiments and and after what whatever three two two three four five six weeks uh you can you can share the experiments
and and you have you have some golden experience uh michael get some uh i get some yeah and then you can share it i think that's that's really exciting just improve it all
and like what i think is like the craziest thing all of it is that like in within six weeks i think everybody who really did the work and who really participated was able to
get something out of it whether it was like somebody like george like knowing how like perhaps now how to better further his academic research or i
am doing academic research as well or like for example jessica said he's not into academia but he's into like discovering himself so i really think like within the six weeks we're all able
to gain something from that and the amount that was like done within these six weeks with in this group i think it's just mind-boggling because usually if
you have like i am used to do like group work there's like a german funny like way to say okay group work it's always one person doing the work and everybody
else is just like taking off of that one person working and this is completely the complete opposite it's like you are working but everybody else is working and so
you can gain so much more as someone who's working as well so it's really i'm so thankful for all for all of you really
so post midnight ramblings off i also want to thank all of you and and the thing that stood out to me was reading um reading what what crazy you
people have been writing in your pages and made me cry sometimes maybe think made me connect to you even even if we haven't
spoken i feel like i know you and and that is incredible and to those that i have spoken to and the european reading room shout out to to you guys um
it's amazing the community is is fantastic so i'm not going to even try to to come up with any golden metaphors you've all been fantastic and
i would just not live up to it but it has been it has been a once in a lifetime experience thanks everybody yeah i'll jump in there after andrea's
late night ramblings and jc's um summary and well all of you have said everything i want to say apart from the fact that like i don't i feel like you've all like been like oh yeah nikki's the mama the group but i don't know anything like you
guys are the cleverest people i know and will probably ever meet yet and you welcome this dumb like just like i don't write uh i don't read a book i don't do like computer stuff and you've just
like welcomed me in and embraced it and i've learned so much about all of you guys and i'm really excited and curious about this and i've learned that i'm not going to allow myself to speak the lie that i can't write because because the first two words that
everybody writes and it's like i'm not going to believe that lie over myself and that's all that i see you guys doing you're not believing the lies over the things that you said and the the the culture that puts us into the box and says we can't
be show our feelings and stuff i'm like no let's get rid of that so thank you for um for doing that and out of that hey not only have i figured out all that but i am going to go back to university and actually do some
writing and i want to do it in public i want to i don't know how to yet but i want to do a masters and do a shared a rome garden or you know a digital garden to publicly show my learning to get it
out there because it's always behind closed doors for people who've got money and i think that's wrong and you use the analogy about you go to the gym and you get work and my my passion is about helping people who feel rubbish in the world
feel better about themselves and i want to see if i can flip you know instead of like you the the way that we see our identity as or we're not good enough or we're not clean and clever enough we're not thin enough or we're not pretty or clever
how we can flip that and i think i i don't know where this is going to go but so thank you for welcoming a mama thank you for being here so good
you know what i'm thinking um by the way you guys are freaking amazing um you guys are freaking amazing i'm looking at i see my emails um um
i say we meet next week same time same place i'll post i'll post a link in the shared graph um i need to figure out what i'm gonna take a couple of days off i'm just gonna not talk to anybody
but um i i have a meeting with the uh rec 3 alumni on friday and we're sort of figuring out how we're going to make this all happen and again this is i think it's very
important that it's not just you know this isn't just the end it's actually the beginning of something here and i think the community that you all have built amongst you know all i did was to help facilitate it i feel like that
that is something that has to be fostered and um through the donations and through the sponsorships um i want to have that place where you can go where you i don't want i don't want just everything in a shared
graph like the conversations and stuff can happen in the shared graph but i think some of the media and stuff so you can consume the the the information that you all are feeding each other in regards to okay this here's like here's andrea cramer's idea
okay awesome here's a two-hour video of me and andrea talking about it you know what i mean or whatever that looks like and it's like you can watch that at any time on your mobile on your whatever it looks like and i just need time to get that built up
again i didn't expect any of this you know so it's like give me a little bit of time to get that built up but i think in the meantime just to sort of keep everyone grounded you know and to not sort of fall off the wayside
here um i'll post the link in the shared graph i suppose or you can dm me but i'll post it in the shared graph for sure for next sunday same time same place and um we'll just have a discussion of
how what it looks like to sort of transition from post rome book club into okay i need you is there any rbc three alumni here okay i see carol um i need you guys to like
get along you know like rbc three is super tight rbc four you you got you all are super tight but i feel like we need to put that together because several people
have already hit critical mass in rbc three but i taught rbc four better so there's like you know you know so it's like it's it's all here everyone is starting
on this equal footing and i want to make sure that everyone feels that way and that everyone gets along so i need to sort of figure out how to make those two groups coalesce if they're supposed to coalesce maybe they need to be separate i don't know
but i need a little bit of time and i don't like all i've been thinking about up to this point is holy crap we've got seonke coming in let's crush it and i feel like it went off without a hitch right i felt like it was super
powerful i feel like we asked him questions that no one else really asks him you know if you look at every other interview that he does he's like how do you do it how do you do it how do you do it how do you do it it's like no i want to know why i didn't know he was
enamored by lumen i had no idea and so anyways um i just wanna so let's just do that for now as as the next sort of like action to take so next week
sunday same time same place i'll record the whole meeting as well but at least just let's just come uh with the idea of you know what we're doing now is how to build out the community and
and i'm always open for different ideas but i feel like kajabi is going to be the best way to do it because it has everything email you know a blog and videos that you can host on there
um so all that being said i don't you know this is your graduation day i don't want to cut it short you know but we've been on the call for i've been on the call for four hours now
because i started an hour early but i don't mind keeping it going if you all want to keep it going oh go ahead i just saw this is the shared graph gonna still be available and we continue to work yeah okay forever it just takes forever to
load and i know that's a problem i know for rbc 5 what i'm going to do is i'm going to have two two different graphs so basically up to day 32 it's going to be one graph that's all the work that everyone's doing
like the inner work and then day 32 on when you're building the shared settle casting i'll have a whole another graph that's my idea at least um and then we do have a yeah go ahead
if we signed up for rbc five because i'm trying to catch up but i feel like i missed the last few weeks so i'm trying to plug myself back in i think it's fun i mean carol did it yeah carol carroll critical mass andy henson did
the work you know i mean by the way can i give a shout out to andy henson hi andy let me just highlight you real quick spotlight oh what happened to it did i spotlight
it nope okay i missed it there we go hey andy andy so okay okay let me just hold on hi everyone okay so let me give them a
little background of how this all happened i think this is important right it's basically after rbc 2 me and andy henson started talking and it was
it was crazy because i was jumping on i was doing these coaching sessions and then i would jump on calls with andy and we were literally structuring out like this plan and it was you know i i
know that whatever this is the seed was planted by our conversations so seriously thank you so much man well i think i feel like we have to thank you
way more because when we've i think i was trying to remember when we first chatted it was back in august when you showed me the structure and that was the
immediately that i saw that it's like it's it is that simple lightweight structure because when you know it that's why you know you can break the rules when you know how these things
just get layered up but you coined that term if i'm not mistaken he's the one that coined the term bootstrapping simple lightweight structure and structure and flywheel but it
it just it just is because i mean that's the power of the blocks in in rome you just you kind of it's backwards because you're stacking them on top of each other but you you're doing it forwards at the same
time but i really enjoyed this go around like i kind of wanted to do rbc3 as well but the community is what makes this
like doing it on your own is not the same thing doing it together is just a completely different level and i think i've really enjoyed this one
because obviously i was doing the work anyway um it's that idea of deliberate practice in one sense but but also because i kind of wanted to see what you did with what we were doing
and i think you have totally nailed it with this one and yeah and i agree with you here kind of proved it proves it it's like as i was doing the exercise i was like i know where this one's going
and that and i know and everyone's light bulbs and and mind-blowing things yeah it's perfect thank you by the way
andy seriously thank you like you were cr you were my accountability partner for a critical mass you know can i throw out one other thing
um i'm just committed to the uh ship 30 for 30 program where i'm going to write 30 essays in 30 days and publish them on
twitter and medium at least i'm scared to death of it but it's really like the ultimate test of taking the stuff i've been doing here and now
i'm committed to putting it out there i have no idea how i'm going to do it especially with four grandchildren visiting me in july but i'm gonna go for it and i invite anybody
else who'd like to join me and suffer through it with me it's going to be a trip and it's quite a test just open discussion anyone wants to jump in
if i can squeeze in one leading note of mine that i'm having um well you guys all already know i've always shared every time i've spoken how
appreciative i am of all of you guys and how amazing i think you guys are and how much i appreciate beau and everything we're doing here the fleeting note
that i'd like to share with you guys um riffing off of alan's geekiness thank you i'm right there with you always for me i guess one of my favorite maybe
the best disney movie to me is aladdin and i i thought about our journey here as like aladdin's heroes journey so
you know first bronson told me about this book called how to write smart notes i was like this is kind of cool it feels kind of nice the cover is really pretty so i opened it
started reading like oh this is really good stuff so basically i didn't even know i needed a system i wasn't doing research i was you know i'm just doing my work every day um but this was
starting to open my eyes to oh wow this is something amazing so this is like oh that diamond that he was supposed to go find in the tigers you know in the cave of
wonders uh was told by someone like hey this is something that's cool you know so all right i went down and pursued this diamond in the cave of wonders but i
i got to it and sanke said it was simple but i didn't feel like it was and then i got a magic lamp and out came the genie and the genie is beau and he's like you ain't never had a
friend like me and i'm like yeah that's true and then all this magic starts happening and then we get out of the cave of wonders and we go on all these adventures and we start picking up new friends
along the way jasmine the tiger the carpet you know everyone building a community and then after all these
barriers and you know obstacles and almost drowning and all these things coming out the other side recognizing that oh i don't have to dress up like a prince i don't need
bo to tell me how to do this like it's all been in me all along and you know at the very end of course happy endings disney movie um gets to marry jasmine gets to have
the world but at the same time he becomes next in line to be sultan which means more responsibility more power more authority but also being that diamond in the rough
recognizing and owning that we are a diamond in the ref now with this power and responsibility to bring it to the world and make the world a better place
so that's kind of how i'm seeing this whole journey with rbc with you guys we are diamonds in the ruck and now we've grown to sultans and we can go share with the world
every guy here is so jealous of bronson [Laughter] i just want to point out joey said in the note that uh in the in the chat that that sounds more like a permanent note than a fleeting
note to us yes yes break the rules break the rules i just want to share the uh literature note i'm working on
i'm actually just going to put in the chat because that's still a work in progress but i think it relates pretty heavily to the experience i've had here which is you know i think the learning here has
been based on relationships and i know when i first started this i started reading what everyone else was writing and that was building a relationship when i was trying to
take a course or trying to read sake's book and try to do it independently in the graph that was very transactional i was like i'm going to read this i'm going to get something out of it and here's you know a transaction
and this you know actual idea that you know you approach life through relationships versus transactions is a huge thing that i just think
i've experienced in this course and i'm actually experiencing in lots of other parts of my life i think we're in such a you know box system that pushes us towards
transactions that's what the whole system wants us to do is transactions but i think we're learning about relationships and you know this course has been incredible that way and
now i look back at everything that i do that's meaningful my life is based on relationships the transactions are just things that happen but i don't they're not the meaning anyway
i'm still working through that that note well now i'll share something just real quick that came out of my session with bo which was you know i i was doing my fleeting notes right and i was getting into that process of doing
this leading notes but i noticed that i was struggling when i wasn't sitting down trying to write right when i was struggling when i would come back and try and process those feeding notes you know and bo in our session he he'd
helped me get to the point where it really needs to be a part of my life right this idea of discovery this idea of fostering when something's interesting normally before i talk to beau i might be walking the dog and i'd see a
crane and i'm like yeah that's kind of cool i wonder what it's like to be a crane operator and then i would just keep walking right but now it's like okay let me grab my phone let me grab otter ai i just had this idea what's it like to be a crane operator what do you do what do they sit
how does the whole thing work and i think by doing more of that kind of self-discovery exploration in my own life about those little things that you look at that jump out at you or they jump out at me that maybe i
dismissed before by doing that it makes it so much easier now when i have to go to the writing to start processing it because bo made a great point it's like you're having a conversation partner with your subconscious right and the more you encourage that
conversation the easier it is to find things that resonate with you and that was a huge aha that came out of our one-on-one wasn't even thinking like that before dude i didn't say that you just said that bro
i ain't that smart that was awesome that hit me you helped draw it out though yeah there you go of why we're struggling because what beau doesn't tell you is that i was blaming
why i wasn't as creative as i wanted to be because i'm like well um i'm a person who deals in ones and zeros right it's either on or it's off i said that about myself but that was never it that was me making an excuse for the fact that i wasn't
fostering that skill and now that i'm doing it more i see the excuse that i made was was meaningless that's never what it was about alan has just become a quantum computer [Laughter]
i wish it's more like he it's more like he gained uh consciousness as a computer talking to himself in real life he just become jarvis jarvis yes
jarvis i'm alive or vision i forgot to add one last piece to my uh i guess what you guys are calling my permanent note at the very end aladdin sets genie free
and even though i don't want to i don't want to set bow free and i don't want to let go of you guys as a community it's the right thing to do so that we can all move forward free and do our best work
people that we ever heard from people that haven't said anything yet okay i'll go this time hey tina there we go no um i want to thank you guys um last week i
was locked out of from the club because my laptop wasn't working and i was supposed to write a permanent note and i was not able to i felt so lost because
what i realized that it was about the community and this aspect of people helping each other and it was not the same so i have to say that i would have
never ever built my settle custom without you and you contributing to this community and it was a learning experience as well
because um when i saw some of your freezing notes some of your religions or permanent notes i realized that i've been in those situations as well
and it is so nice not to feel alone anymore and to have a conversation partner when i need to so it was a very very beautiful journey and
yeah it was very nice to meet you guys and i also hope that in the future some of you guys will attend the reading rooms and we can discuss
different ideas because i feel like that reading books by myself is boring right now and it's so much better when i have different perspectives and
i'm no longer in the bubble so that's nice and i just briefly sort of add to that um i hope bo won't mind me saying this but i relatively recently listened to his
um rome fm podcast episode and i think if you have listened to it you've you've possibly just touched bo's heart there quite a bit in terms of the idea of being not alone and i would thoroughly
recommend anyone that wants her wants to hasn't read it listen to it yet to go and listen to it because um he is here for for i came here to learn to be a better academic
um he is here for much more important and deep and fundamental reasons and so um thank you bo and i just wanted to put out if people wanted to learn a bit more about bo's background and why he's here i
think it's a really important thing to listen to [Music] i said one more thing then to finish book club really
isn't there a better name now i think actually that that was the brilliance because i came in and i laughed when john joshua mentioned it i came in and said you know it's 15 30 minutes a day
and uh he you really lured us into that trap where i was really spending hours and willingly came here you know looking at the chat waiting for someone to drop something new because i
i really enjoyed that one i mean i was really glued to that chat room and and and then to the to the writing exercises and it was such an awesome experience um but had i known that before without
knowing you guys i mean i have i i think that that would be insane i mean if if he mentioned that you will spend something around two three hours a day for that book club i mean get away from
me get away from me [Laughter] but beau is an ethical con man yeah it's really it's it's really it's really ethical coming that's right that's what he did
hey yeah anybody could drop out whenever they wanted you know i i felt i felt that it was not exactly what i had anticipated
um but i also felt that it was so much more than i had expected so you know someone else who didn't feel that way okay maybe they'll be in rbc five
yeah yeah i think there's something to that the ethical con man and and we came in and there was so much generosity about it that it was attractive and i was inspired by that when i reached out to
bronson and to russell to say hey you guys are part of my group now and it was there was an assumption in it there was an assumption in it but because it's so generous i felt like
i was allowed to do it and yeah they could say no thank you but because i took that step inspired by beau really good things happen and i i think that's going to be a really exciting part of how i live my life going forward
to make those generous assumptions and enroll people [Music] i'll say it again bose he's laundering knowledge through a book club that's what it is he's using the book club for this front right to make us all
better people street smarts baby street smart you know he's laundering love [Laughter]
okay um i love you all congratulations i think like it's just the beginning i say we uh you know i want to leave it where we we i want to leave it where we want more
and and because that's the idea it's always learning i love how seonkeys put it he's like no i'm always learning and when i was on the hour call with him he was open-minded and and i feel like
that's what i admire in people and um i'm so proud of i mean each and every one of you here and um yeah i just feel like i think it's about
not gonna cry stop it um you know it's it's about it's about taking this and actually living life though and and i feel like you all are charged to do that
and you just never know who you're gonna help because maybe i can't help my best friend but maybe you can but i'm not gonna know
so um thank you all thank yourself and yeah honey on the tongue you did it you're awesome let's meet
back here next week and let's build it's time to build build build build build people need to see this people need to see this i love you all
just unmute yourself let's just give everyone a round of applause just you all are amazing and just bravo bravo thank you so much boo my pleasure thank yourself thank you thank you community
you know and i'm gonna upload this uh to youtube and just pay attention to the shared graph shoot me a dm whatever you need uh just give me about three or four days i just want to not see anyone for three days just
process this and receive this so thank you again i love you all bye bye exercise i'll see you in the guided riding
[Laughter] exercises
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