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as everybody knows very well now i don't even know why i keep saying it i made angel from hypothesis and i am really um honored to be able to moderate this panel discussion on social annotation
in world languages and it's a really complex topic so we just have a couple of panels here we're hopefully going to be able to dive in pretty deep um is what i'm hoping at least and um
uh we'll get to that in just a second but i wanted to just pause for a moment and have us all take a deep breath oh i don't know how much of this um conference you've been participating in both my my fellow
panelists here and um everyone who's in the session participating but this is day four now and i think when we get involved in these things sometimes we don't take a pause and just relax for a minute and just bask in the moment so we have we have an
hour and a half here so i think we can just take a moment to just um recognize where we are and focus in take a deep breath and then maybe move forward with a little bit of um
calmness and tension so i i'm super um super honored to have both of these folks here um uh i'm really excited uh to have uh rosario rojo salazar here
who um i haven't had a chance to collaborate with much yet but i've been desperate to do so ever since i got wind of all the things that she's been doing um in mexico um and so i'll i'll have her
introduce herself a little bit more in depth um in a second but i also really want to offer a very big honored welcome to federico pienzola
who is joining us um and i'm not actually sure where you are if you're in italy right now is that true yes i am okay um because uh i know that you work uh internationally
in a lot of different contexts and these two fine folks um have been working with social annotation using languages other than english world languages that we might say and um in really
interesting and creative ways that we're going to delve into that really deeply but before we get started in their presentation let me just give each one of them a chance to introduce themselves and give a little bit of context about um where they're calling from and what
their sort of main set of practices is um in education so i'll start with you rosario i'm really happy uh and honored to be here sharing with you some of my experiences
using social annotation with my students here in mexico and in ecuador in spanish and i'm a professor of the universidad autonoma del here in mexico
and i'm an invited professor in ecuador in la universidad in ecuador and and besides that i am related with topics of open science
open access and the digital humanities then i don't know if eco is going to present himself or i'm going to yeah yeah why don't let's let's hear from federico first and um i really i'm i'll
apologize in advance that we're going to hold this conversation in english which is maybe strange to do but since we're going to be crossing a lot of different language boundaries no no no don't worry i hope you could understand my
my absolutely perfect english okay absolutely perfectly i know it's better than my spanish although i do i do speak a little bit um so federico if i could ask you to do the same sort of thing and give us some context
thank you for having me thank you for the invitation it's an honor and a pleasure i've been learning a lot in these past days and so as you said briefly i'm from milan italy but i'm also working at in seoul south korea at southern
university and i'm currently doing a project comparing um the relationship with uh between korean young people and italian young people with technology in relation to how they
read literature and especially how they read the fiction and so i've been exploring how they deal with the phenomena that we call digital social reading more bloated so not just including social annotation but
also posting reviews using instagram like with the phenomenon called bookstagram or reviews on on youtube so many different kind of ways of using social media and digital media to
read and to talk about this issue that's so great and certainly we don't need to just focus on annotation here we can talk about all the different kind of social learning and digital reading things that are going on social reading all those words mixed together in different ways
and it's so great too that both of you um cross so many different boundaries not only um in languages but also international boundaries both working in at least two different countries right um and maybe more
so um i welcome you uh on that level so if i'm not mistaken i believe that um rosario at least has a little bit of a a formal kickoff that she wants to do for her piece
and so um and federico i'll just check with you too did you also have something a little more formal okay great so let's let's hear from rosario first then we'll go from federico and then we'll move into the discussion mode after that
and get involved with um the audience as well if that makes sense all right so i'm going to step back here and meet myself and give you the stage rosario okay
thank you and i'm gonna share my screen now i'm to talk about this social annotation with world languages and particularly i'm going to talk about my experience using um
hypotheses here in mexico and a little bit in ecuador okay then um okay this is the the topics that i'm going to talk about the experience before the covet 19 in
mexico and ecuador and then some things related with this useful tool during pandemic it was crazy and then the resources and tools that we have been using and they're sharing social annotation
with colleagues all over latin america and i'm going to share with you some voices of my students okay first of all okay i started to use um
to use um hypothesis for social annotation even before the the pandemic started i was happy and i didn't know and in the case of mexico i started to
work with pre-graduate social sciences students from my political science sociology and communication in a course related with qualitative methodology
the average of the students were 19 up 23 years old at first they were surprised not using this platform because they they are used to reading from
photocopies i don't know in your countries but here in mexico or in latin america it's really common to use photocopies to for reading and you know so sad but they easily solve
the learning curve i was so happy and they were very enthusiastic wreath and they read more than usual and share with other and i'm gonna share with you some of their experiences and their
voices uh at the end of this of this presentation but in opposite in the case of ecuador as i i told you i'm a professor there in a in a master's degree
on a urban planning in a methodology course too and they are a little bit older no between um i don't know 27 and 40 years old in a face-to-face course uh the use of
the tool implied a lot of challenges both due to the digital skills of the students and the platform in english and they made a great effort but their annotation were
very few and i think they were like not really enthusiastic no i don't know if uh if that was because of the because they were older than the other students or because i really don't know but okay
they they try to do that i don't know if i try to compare the case before the pandemic between mexico and ecuadorian in a face-to-face course in the case of mexico they were very
young students related to digital apps then for them because they are very young it's not a very new thing to use a digital app they consider
the use of social annotation as a game and have fun with that and they study um disciplines involved in the development of communication and argument
argumentation skills so social annotations are really interesting for them in the opposite case from ecuador students they were middle age students most of them parents almost all
working with in the public service in ecuador which little time to learn digital skills the use of social annotation is an activity that they could skip
they are used to reading on paper and do not have much interested in interesting and changing their professional profile is um or where a geography architecture engineering
they do not consider their development of communication skills as something central in their training probably because of that the difference uh i don't know in the experience or it could be explained
now what happened before the pandemic started it was a i don't know a really big big challenge in the case of ecuador and the the high levels of kentuckian in
in the in the very beginning of 2020 and the lack of organization at the university forced the suspension of activities for a couple of months upon the return from activity some
students left school and we discontinued the use of almost all digital tools but video conferences but in the case of mexico was different
the school semester had a already started when the pandemic when the lockdown started and we had a couple of weeks working when a lockdown began
had started using hypotheses so the switch to emergency remote learning was easier however some emergency action had to be taken i mean we needed to
prepare or in this case i need i prepare different tutorials of the use of for the use of hypothesis and other tools we're opening a public group in zotero with all the
course readings all available in in open access because the libraries were closed then a a we needed to take care that they they could access
uh to all the all the bibliography and we share experiences of social annotation on twitter and tick tock i i don't use tik tok but the students they wanted to to share in tech talk and okay it was
okay for me and they try to tag the authors very few of them uh answered but it was it was funny and then we made they made some videos
about the learning experiences and posting the blog that we have for the course and it was a very very interesting experience uh which one was the the the resources and tools that we use
first of all we in order to integrate the bibliography in one place we used zotero because this was an easy way to share and access the the the
bibliography this group is open if you want to uh i don't know to visit it is that the link is is over there and you know the students didn't use any and in in any
uh a a bibliographic um uh uh reference uh then it was a little bit difficult but at the end that they learn uh they keep uh the key importance of open access was
um i don't know relevant because um and i needed to adjust the syllabus because not all the text can be unnoted you know some of them there were not available to
or or suitable to to to make the annotations with zotero or other uh it was only on paper or there were some some papers on some bibliographies that they were not
available or no have the rights to share then we we adjust all the syllabus and is is over there then the students
go to zotero and identify which one is um the bibliography and they open this bibliography all of them in in open access and then they open or the the hypothesis and extension and
start to to to make the the annotations the social annotations uh uh the other thing that i started to do was um some resources to reduce the learning curve some tutorials
i made a lot of tutorials some of them are the ones that are here we had little time to adapt the face-to-face course to a virtual one the the tutorials in spanish were decisive for the
for the students and i upload the all the tutorials in to youtube why this is a tricky answer i made a survey between among my students and i
identified that 40 of this course student access their classes online via their own cell phone data in mexico i don't know in other countries but the
use of social networks including youtube does not consume their cell phone data because of that this was important for for them i don't know these resources were in them
in youtube okay then after that i made an hypothesis tutorial here is the link of uh the this this tutorial because at the very beginning the students had some um
doubts or questions about the use but i was not with them then because of that i started to do this this tutorial and and then dc put this uh hypothesis tutorial in spanish was seen
by teachers and students from all latin american countries that was really surprised because i i didn't expect this success no then due to the interest which is not my university this is the
biggest university in mexico asked me to organize a workshop in spanish to share the use of this tool remember that we was in the in the middle of the pandemic and all the professors and the students who
are were looking for tools or some helping i don't know tools in order to continue with the classes then we um we started the social
annotation and then and we opened of course this this group and the social annotation allowed to fill the gaps of not being able to to talk face-to-face
due to the lockdown then it was really interesting because i was using um hypothesis before the pandemic and after that and i identified that after the pandemic for the students
were more important the social annotation because they could share things that they couldn't share because they were isolated in their own houses the students committed themselves to
using the tool and there were some of them that try to get other teachers to use it but that was not possible due to the digital skills gap among teachers that was so
so sad then uh when we started to share this annotation with colleagues all over america it was thanks to the unam uh organized organization of this work workshop
uh was it was held in the i think in august of uh 2020 the workshop as i told you was organized by the unam library more than a thousand
people attend the workshop i was really surprised i i couldn't uh imagine all the interests that these kind of tools could be i don't know could we have the a there were teachers
and students most professors and and students from mexico colombia argentina chile costa venezuela wow it was crazy and all of them at the
end of this this workshop agree uh on the need of resources in spanish to facilitate the use of this kind of of tools then i want to share with you
some of the um voices of students i i don't want to take a lot of time but if you want i can i can share with you i don't know the links but they they post some um um some
they add some post in the blog that we have for the class and this is a couple of them the the first one called hypothesis a revolutionary way of doing reading checks and the other one is the honorable
likeness of being a student online and they in in this case they share in their own world words the experience of you said is um this tool uh this is and really really
uh a fun if you want i can i can show you some of the videos that they made uh it was really fun i don't know um making some songs or poetry or
joking about the use of hypotheses and the way in which they they really appreciate this they they are a lot of videos and are really really fun and this is some of them
experiences that i can i can share with you of some of the students there are a lot of them but then i i want to share some of them in this case alan colleen he is a student of communication he said he he's saying using hypothesis forced
me to read more carefully to think about how the ideas are related to other topics to add questions about the text and to think of examples to share in the comments without a doubt this exercise require
more concentration and time that doing a summary or just reading a pdf and he continues uh in other classes with readings but there are not many ways to ask questions
about the specific point or to know what the classmates think when we use hypotheses all of this could be done before class i thought it also requires a lot of communic
commitment and punctuality on the part of students also since we use hypotheses in class i have a scene that they have used in events and in conferences beyond the university
uh i studied so it was good to have a training in using it first with the group before using in more spaces in public and here's another student and he says that using hypotheses help him
to do more specific analysis and various perspective of digital content that not only help him or them not consider perspectives from the from the academic community i
think it's a very practical opportunity for a practical dissemination of knowledge and opinions of daily content that we read without having to separate ourselves from the text to follow the comments
and the highlight of ideas mara she is a student of political science sciences and he she says we made a group with a hypothesis and wrote some comments in a text
so we could read what other colleagues had written that gave us an idea of what caught their attention uh in the reading the same thing did not always catch our attention uh there were also
occasion occasions uh when we only make up paraphrases of what the author was proposing perhaps that they did not speak of
or critical capacity but of different interpretation of a single message it was interesting to look at a single object from perspectives of your college from other careers and andrea she's
she's studying a communication too she says i using a hypothesis has been of great help for academic matters i can identify perceptions and point of view of other people who have consulted
the same pages or documents thanks to this uh thanks to this practice i had new recommendations for articles that they complement my research and work and and just continuing i don't want it to
take a lot of time uh veronica she's a professor and and she says discovering hypothesis as a tool for a web annotation was to move from pencil to paper no to a layer of the web that allowed me to
connect with my students making more efficient at the time invested in reading and reviewing the text and there are a lot of comments related with this if if you want i can share with you the links of
the the videos uh that okay the videos are in spanish then it's it's a shame that they are really really fun and i think um i don't know it was a great experience and um um is that all in my in my part i
don't know i you want if you want to continue talking or sharing other experiences i'm here thank you very much oh thank you thank you so much rosario that was fantastic
um and uh i think um we'll let's hold on to some of the ideas and thoughts that came out of what you were talking about i think some people would really like to see some of those examples that you brought forward let's
hear from federico first and then we'll well we have plenty of time and so we can come back to some further discussion and delve into some of those examples that's okay okay thank you rosario it was amazing to hear about your research
and i wanna have all those links and check what you did with your students i will share my presentation now so uh my goal is more related to reading
fiction as i said so it's a kind it's a very different different kind of text it's not necessarily related to an educational activity so people can read fiction whenever they want and the challenge here is to how to
bring social annotation into the reading of picture and is this helpful so what i try to do is that to create um a reading experience which looks like uh reading an ebook or even more a printed book so i
created this um digital book using rstudio and the book down package which allows me to create this um book format with the you see the font
as a serifs and there is a table of contents on the side that you can hide and it can be adapted to various needs also for accessibility like exchanging contrast increasing the font
and it's a responsive kind of text so it can adapt it to different kind of screens mobile phones tablets and and laptops so i wanted to really help the students being able to read uh
whichever format that they wanted and with whichever devices they prefer i did this study in comparing um how people how students university students read the right fiction and in italy and south korea
and the size of the classes was very different in italy it was an undergraduate course so we had a lot more students you see 111 who participated while in south korea it was a master
course very specific so we are just 17 students but it was a quite uh successful i think there was a lot of conversation even though they didn't have almost any experience
using social annotation tools or digital social reading tools more broadly so they don't read fanfiction modes they don't post reviews online their use of digital and
social media for reading was a really low and to measure and to um to see how they differ in the use of social notation uh
for for reading fiction i use the both the qualitative methods analyzing the comments and but i also used quantitative methods so i used questionnaires
to measure their their experience and i have the data only perform for italy at the moment um so i use the social orientation scale developed by rani kalirin and and others which has
two dimensions perceived learning and the sense of community and the so the ranges are one from one to five and the question is like how much do you agree with them with this statement
and the meaning was quite high it was a four out of five so even though they don't have any they didn't have any experience with the social annotation or very low experience with social notation they thought that using social
annotation annotating fiction help them learn more about how to interpret the text and how to uh to engage with the with the text and also how to empathize with the characters we will
see in a minute and then the second dimension is the sense of community so again the scale is from one to five and the mean was a three so a bit more than uh
than the mid-range value so again the sensor community was something that emerged during this experience the fact that students were able to talk to each other made them feel more uh part of the
classroom and then another dimension that i measured was that the factor called the intrinsic motivation so how much the people were interested in enjoying the activity according to their
personal attitude and their in individual interest in using this this kind of tool and again here in the range of from one to seven which was allowed for for the replies
the the mean value was 4.28 so quite a above the the mid value so it was it was a confirmation that this kind of tool can be successfully used for motivating people
to uh to engage in a different way with fiction so i think to conclude i think it's a it's a possibility which is a also available
not only in english speaking countries but also in italy and in south korea even though the context of the educational context is very different it was in italy
we have uh like policies which are very liberal and we're pushing a lot towards the adoption of new technologies whereas on the other side in south korea education is more conservative it has a
more conservative approach but at the same time they have maybe the most developed ecosystem of digital services and digital infrastructure so they have a they do everything with mobile phones at
the moment you really can do cover all the aspects of your life with mobile phones and even different kind of entertainment web cartoons are which are a web-based form of comics
are very popular in south korea but still annotating socially text it's not a practice that is so common at the moment so i think there's a space to to introduce this technology and this kind of
practices more broadly even within educational context and yeah i also asked the students how uh they would like to reuse recommended this tool and you see that here it's the even
higher they had such a good experience using this tool that out of seven which is what's the maximum 5.6 is the the mean value that people scored on this scale so they
really would like to use these kind of tools in other courses and they also willing to recommend this to friends and other classmates coming to the kind of annotations that i found uh to this text
they're really wide and i didn't find any particular difference between italian and south korean students so there were intertextual references not only to other books but also to other media so films
and songs or other cultural references there were references to otto's biography to interpret some parts of the text maybe but also more direct response uh to the behaviors of characters
and uh maybe you're aware that there some researchers i think um thompson who they developed this model of three kinds of affordances of social annotation like social
literary and linguistic kind of annotations and i found all of them in in various ways in both in italy and south korea so interpretation of literary details linguistic reflection about the meaning
of certain words maybe comments about the reader's activation both emotionally imaginatively and as a kind of reflection on the text itself but also actualization
we use them text from the beginning middle of 21st century both in italy and south korea so readers actualized the content which were of the stories and sets
maybe uh 100 year um 50 60 years before uh the actual era and then again interpretation of character behaviors but also aesthetic evaluation of what they were
reading and also more on the social aspect there were requests for help with interpretation of the text so again peer learning is quite a valuable affordance of social annotation and
yeah generalization from narrative episodes so starting from something lived by a character they were trying to extract or abstract um some more general truth that could be
applied to their own lives and but also activation of previous knowledge that is needed to interpret uh some literary devices some conventions of literary genres for instance
or even um some behaviors that characters have so that readers had to resort to their previous knowledge to understand what it means to behave in a certain way
uh i think that's it for for now thank you very much for listening to me and i just want to drop a note here about a book that it's available for open peer review at the moment on the
mit press platform uh so where i summarize the the work that i've been doing in the previous years and it's in open access now and it can be annotated by all of you and i really look forward to learn more
uh from your own practices with social annotation so that i can improve this book and make publish it eventually thank you very much that was so that was so interesting uh
federica and what i really love here is the the difference between um the practices that rosario's talking about and what you're doing um but different and complementary and some interesting things coming out of them
um and i'll just um ask is the book that the book that you just gave us the link to is that published in the same platform that uh raymie and ontario published annotation in it is it is it's in sim platform yes i
got the inspiration from them i was already thinking about publishing an open access and doing open peer review and i found the perfect tool when i started when i read their books great yeah and i'll just put out to it folks that's a the pub pub
it's a publishing platform called pub pub which is sort of funny right and um it has a its own built-in annotation technology that isn't the same thing as hypothesis just in case anybody's goes there and it's like wait it looks
different um i did a little bit of uh peer review on raymie and ontario's annotation book and found it to be a really rewarding experience so definitely encourage folks to um to also do that with with federico's
work so i have a i want to start things off first by asking what i think might be a kind of basic question and uh first thank you so much for giving us all the context of what you guys have been working on because now
like i could i really fully understand i think that well not fully but i understand more about the background of what you've been working on but let me let me ask this first and i'll and maybe start with rosario so when when we're talking about
annotating and and social annotating and reading especially in different languages there's a whole bunch of different possibilities right there's the text itself and the language that it may be in it could be in more
than one language right and then there's the annotation space and annotations themselves have the possibility of being multilingual right and so i'm kind of curious um and and i'll
i'll have federico follow up on this too but when you and your annotation work with the students and i realized that it crossed many different boundaries so there may be many different examples here but were you primarily annotating works in
say spanish or some other single language and then annotating also in that shared language or was there multilingual reading and annotation going on um it's multilingual reading an annotation in the case of um
the the okay depends in the course that i give here in mexico which is related with mythology qualitative mythology the students they are very young and they are so enthusiastic
and they they could read english but it's a little bit more difficult to to to to write or speak then because of that i can share with them some um text in english for example for they
they are any any problem but they they made or they make all their annotations in spanish you know then it is it's a little bit crazy but for them is easier
some of them mainly those who i don't know who has uh some skills in in english probably they can make the the annotations in in english but i i leave them i don't
know as they prefer if they want to annotate in spanish it is okay for me or if uh if they make the annotations in in english is it's okay for me too the thing that is crazy
and they they are they they were surprised because they thought that probably the the authors uh who they were reading no would be interested in knowing the the
annotations and they were very very few authors who i don't know who who give a response or a feedback and i think that that was because all
or they the authors of the text they don't have twitter for example then it was really difficult to find them or they don't understand what what the social annotation is
then uh but there were a couple of uh of authors who answered and they were so happy really really happy because they feel they felt i don't know important and and
yeah it was interesting that makes sense um and so it really sounds like you've got a real the multilingual juice flowing for sure um and so uh that were the only two languages involved
really just spanish and english then on one side of the other or were there any were there any indigenous languages at work no no okay i'm always i'm always digging for other
like little nuggets too i was really trying hard to um have another educator here who who worked in um some non-latin alphabet languages but actually federico may be able to weigh in on that for example excuse me that i introduced
but in the case of ecuador for example it was different different the students is much more difficult for them to read in english i don't know probably because they all they are they were older or they are not
habituated to but all the texts that i share with them uh uh was in spa in spanish and some of them made the annotations in kichwa
which is the traditional language of um yes wow you can understand of course anything because i would i would love to see that [Music] i've never seen an annotation yes i'm
going to look for that in okay yeah i would love to see one of those that would be awesome does it does and does that use the latin alphabet no no he's the same yeah yeah the same one okay all right okay so so same kind of question to you
then federico um i'm wondering uh you know this multilingual aspect so the text you were reading and the the the language of the annotations themselves was there a mix there or what what languages were going on no in
italy we have been annotating italian literature texts and with in italian in south korea it was um an international program a tool in english so even though there
is a lot there are majority of the students are korean it's all taught in english and the texts that we're reading are also english texts even though a strong knowledge of korean culture and
korean history is required to understand the text so of course the elements of korean culture emerges maybe there are some mixing of language of english and korean students have to write their comments in
english but they tend to also to practice their transliteration skills because they have to learn how to korean into the the latin alphabet
and so they tend to use both uh english they tend to use english the translation of korean into english and also some korean words or sentences where they when they cannot express themselves
perfectly in into english so there's an interesting mix there yeah that is that is interesting i was wondering uh actually if so there wasn't was there any reading or annotating in korean
no for these classes no because it's the old token in english right i'm just curious if um because i believe you were using hypothesis outside of an lms environment is that right do you know if any of your students went
on to use it in other contexts um i asked them about the intention to use it or the previous use of digital annotation tools but i'm not sure if they're using hypotheses or some other tools
but it was um and as i said before korean education is very conservative so there is a very little innovation in terms of uh digital technologies introduced apart
from video lecture and you just listen to the professor talking that that that makes sense um yeah i was really i i'm i'm very interested in the idea
that uh annotation gives this annotation layer if you will introduces a new space on text right where there can be a multi-lingual interchange um which i just i find that
to be like a fascinating area that we probably haven't really fully explored yet although you you all are both on the forefront of it i did notice that um diego is sharing um some interesting statistics that he's compiled about
about the use of spanish in particular um online and uh yeah that's that was actually my motivation for wanting to learn spanish too is because it is so widely used um so one thing that i uh i always think
is a little bit interesting to maybe try on these panels if you guys have questions for each other so um federico i don't know as you were listening to what rosario was saying did it did any questions come up for you that you wanted to poster
yes i mean i was i mean the you're using this report i saw in the slides for teaching quantitative methods right qualitative methods in so it's a social science uh class
okay do you know yeah i wonder if they they the students that were using social annotation also for other classes or if they adopted than this tool for their personal use
no that's a shame they they when they discover now the exam this tool um they they were at the beginning a little bit surprised and then they
loved no mainly during during the the pandemic because all day they're showing that it is um make possible but at the end some of them told me that they they wanted
that other professors use this kind of tools or another kind of tools but all that teacher all the professors were i don't know
they didn't want to and i assume that this because of this uh digital skills gap uh i suppose is is a problem related with the professors you know the age of the professors all
of them are really old older than me and uh they are not really i don't know um uh related with these digital topics and and most of the students during the pandemic have been
so um um i don't know disappointed because the the the virtual classes has been so boring so bored sober no because that professor is talking like this during two hours
uh-huh and they didn't use any kind of i don't know tools or things or or that whatever and even the students ask them to use it and they were no uh um um they they rejected and the
university didn't i don't know push the professors to do that because um it's it's it's difficult it's not um i don't know it's not in the culture i think and
i suppose i i don't know i i suppose that is related with the age of the professors but i don't know if it's not but actually i had there's a there was there is a there was now a very active association
nonprofit association in italy doing annotations of literary texts on twitter so they normally did they had a shared calendar in when defining the time when they were
reading chapters of books and then they were tweeting comments about the books and they were able to involve um involve some very active teachers even like over 50 or 60 years old
so in this case i think it was not a matter of age but the role of the teacher was very important in having students being motivated in in writing comments and sharing their
thoughts about what they were reading and many people have already stressed this in the previous days in other talks but the role of educators is really important for the introduction of these kind of tools and as you would
say rosario the fact that there are no tutorials available in spanish that you had to create them to to make the students learn how to do that it it's really a shame and we we should do we should do more to make these
tools available in other contexts in other countries yes that that was surprising to me because i made that tutorial that is in youtube for my students you know thinking of them in order to help them
and then when i started to see that was a lot a lot of views and there were a lot of people all over latin america i don't know asking me about the tool and i said no
i only use it i don't know who are them and it was it was crazy and with that with that tutorial i realized that there is a lack of resources in other languages mainly
i don't know i'm thinking in spanish too because you know there are a lot of people in a lot of countries that are speaking in spanish i think i was reading the the the collaboration
of diego de la era and he says that is the second more spoken language in the world then i think that of course english of course english but i think that
probably if i don't know we try to make an effort or to collaborate in order to to produce much more resources in spanish could be could be good and i think that another pro i don't
know another reason no i don't know i think that could be related that other other professors don't use these kind of tools it's not only okay probably the age or
no i don't know uh but it's because of the kind of text that they are using in their syllabus because there are a lot of professors at least here in latin america that
they still use books in i don't know paper but not me or photocopies as i told you no all the other copies then the photocopies are i don't know scan
you know and it's really difficult to to make the annotations of that in that kind of a text that's a real problem yeah yeah and maybe we could circle back
to this idea of um you know making making hypothesis itself or social annotation in general more available in different languages because it's a thorny one and i apologize because hypothesis hasn't done
everything that we can do certainly not as much as rosario it's time for spanish um so single-handedly she's uh she's done great work there i i want to throw that back unless federico you had something else you wanted to follow up and i was going to
do it the other way and see if rosario had a question for you yes please go ahead i don't know if you did rosario about something about federico's work no i'm i'm really impressed with this um i
don't know uh cultural um change because then i don't know italian it's almost similar no at least when you speak in italian i almost understand something
but in korean or i don't know which is the language that they are talking there in english in which way you can um i don't know solve the the problem of the alphabet that they
use for annotations for example if they are annotations in korean or i don't know yeah it's it's supported by a hypothesis no problem oh i didn't know
okay i i never tried of course okay oh no the big the big difference that i that i faced in all the research that i'm doing because i'm also studying and researching
uh annotations occurring more in a more natural context let's say so on apps like wattpad and and other fan fiction website where people are writing comments on stories because they
liked with them and they do not they don't have teachers telling them that or read this and and annotate it the main difference that i found this day in the tone and in the attitude that the
people have collected on apps like wattpad for instance they're more more casual of course the age is also uh is also also matters because what users are much
younger are and i think the average was a i did a yeah it was a just above 20 years old of age and but the majority of them is also teenagers so it's really
they have a more casual attitude it's more like a really we are on a social medium we share with our thoughts more freely we even right we use the emojis a lot we write direct emotional responses to something
happening in the text whereas once you start using these tools inside a class everything changes it's the attitude of the students changes and it's more like
i have to show the teacher that i know something i have to show my peers that i learned something and i know something about this text and i have to look smart when i write in my comments yes
that's a big difference that i that i've seen but in in in that case is similar to mexican students because they say in the in the different videos that i can share with you
if you want i can link i can i can share the link here but they say that with this kind of tools uh or with the social annotation they needed to read carefully
and they needed to i don't know take their time in order to make an annotation because they know that all the classmates are going to read it no yes yes
yes which might which might be an excellent way i think i mean the social aspect of of digital reading might be the key i think for the promotion of reading and especially on what's sometimes
called deep reading reflective reading critical reading yes which is in decline because of media different kind of digital media entertainment and and also because of the medium itself
that the technology of reading on screen has been uh found it's a detrimental for like the retention of information or for the ability to understand deeply uh the text i think
the social aspect can bring this component of uh reflecting together into the game again yes i think it's uh in in any case uh i don't know the cultural um context
must be different you know because i don't know i i imagine that as you said during your presentation uh the north korean society is a little bit more conservative i don't know if and
probably they don't share a lot i don't know their thinkings or no this this is a challenge or because they are young it's not that big no they
they use a lot um they're very social they're yeah they're very conservative but also very social they use social media in a lot of different ways to share and to talk to each other a lot about
any kind of topic but they have a very different ecosystem digital ecosystem they have other tech companies they don't use google they don't use facebook much they use a lot naver and cacao which are the two big
tech giant there but i think south korea is a big has become now a huge player in the worldwide context related to digital social reading and social
orientation because i don't know how many of you know this but uh wattpad which is the largest platform for uh english language uh annotation has been acquired a
few months back by um by naver which is the korean google and naver also owns a platform which is the the biggest platform for webtoons which is a huge phenomenon in in south
korea and japan and china and a few months later then kakao which is the second big tech company in in korea acquired three other platforms
one is radish and another one is the glows so all platform where you can read digitally and annotate the text so now what we have that some of the biggest
platforms in terms of social and digital reading are being owned by korean companies and it's i think it's very interesting to see what the developments would be in the future
well that that's really interesting context for there i didn't know about all this uh mergers and acquisitions and it's also interesting because korean culture is very influential in
all the in all asia especially southeast asia but a lot also in in china and japan related to k-pop and of course now with bts this became very famous also in the western world
and so and we are all watching korean drama now on netflix so that the rise of uh uh of the the popularity of korean entertainment
together with the with this merging of ownership of reading platforms i think we're going to see something very interesting great well we have actually a question from the audience uh
finally i was waiting for the audience to get involved there's been some really interesting chat going back and forth of course um and so i'm going to put this one on stage and it could be that this is a little bit outside of your experience i'm not sure
um that we'll see because you know this is about basically using uh social annotation as a language teaching tool right to teach someone a language they don't know and of course
i guess you both have experience in that because you're both working with students who are reading things that are not in their native language but you're not your goals haven't necessarily been to teach language
right yeah it's not part of my research or my teaching but i know there is very useful research out there and you can find some some articles listed in the
zotero bibliography that remy collier is curating and also in the one that i'm curating and i will find the links and posting hit them here in the chat great what about eurozone do you have thoughts on this name i'm i'm
not um i don't know i'm not related with the teaching of another language shows native speakers right i'm a methodology professor you know then i really don't know but i suppose that it could be useful
no useful just energy for sharing because you know even even i'm not a um a language or english professor here in mexico i can identify
that the students even it's not my my i don't know my discipline they started to i don't know to to to get to to improve their skills in uh speaking english uh
when they are using these these tools or they are uh reading uh texts in in english and sometimes they ask me some things related with them i don't know with the use of language
for example and and i think it's related but if i i i i don't know exactly because i'm not i'm just a methodology professor
just a humble methodology professor um yeah and i think that's that's sort of in a way not the topic of this um of this panel because that's like a whole other world right of teaching someone a new language um and i'll just
point out that there was some really interesting um presentations given not at the last i annotate which was in 2019 um so we can find some links to past presentations on that um
particularly people using uh social annotation and teaching french if i'm not mistaking mistaken and um one of the things that they were also doing was
using annotation to embed non-linguistic cues and reactions to text in other languages so for instance they were asking students to do things
like um uh as they were reading through poetry in french to give visual reactions to the text as opposed to textual
reactions so using images and videos as the annotation as opposed to text responses so it then became we can't really say non-linguistic right because images are a language too but it became
not non-text linguistic if that's work something like that you know i was curious i know people were interested in um in hearing a little bit more about your examples and i know rosario you posted a link to some stuff
but i thought you might maybe even want to pick one or two and show them on on screen and while if you want to do that while you're picking those out i thought i might ask federico um you had your students um reading fiction
what fiction did they read what were the stories i in italy italian there was um we have made a selection by italo calvino so
some of them were more uh um short story short stories some of them related to his experience during the resistance uh to the fastest and some more science fiction kind of stories and in
korea we used a selection of few mostly historically based short stories during the japanese occupation and uh also during the the war with the north
korea uh were this were the stories by korean authors or yes all by korean authors which have been translated into english there's multiple layers of translation yeah
interesting um it'd be interesting to go back and see how the annotations would anchor on the korean version of the same text probably not well actually some students did some students of course they they were they're korean natives so they prefer to read in korean because it's
faster for them so then they also there were a few comments related to the translation actually yeah so as a as a tool to navigate translation it could also be really interesting some of which is coming up in chat as
well so rosario do you have a couple examples that you want to show off on screen okay it's not too hard spanish of course they are in spanish but if you want to yes i can sure and you can imagine what they are saying
it's a very widely spoken language so i'm sure there are many of us here who could probably speak some of it and understand okay i'm gonna i'm gonna share with you the videos because they are so uh fun
and um i don't know i think you are um just watching them oh yeah yes i share this this link see we'll see how the sand goes through uh-huh
she says that she was so nervous in using this tool because she has never [Music] she's talking about them uh she says that hypothesis is so useful because uh she she don't need it to go to make a
photocopy of the book no and it's the pdf already there and she can read it that is a very useful a way to be in touch with other uh students and let me show another one
okay oh and he's saying that he's gonna talk about the way in which they are facing the the lockdown for continuing the classes
mm-hmm every one of them talking about the same he says that it's not one more pdf that i need to read because i i i can make the annotation itself
and he's talking exactly about the same not that this is different and the way in which they are facing this and again you see all of them all of them share wow lot
no yeah your experiences no some of them are so so i don't know um um fun and others are you know joking or one of them take no i don't know if in this one no take a
guitar and start to to play the guitar and know and making like a song here they are so crazy and uh in this part you can see let me show
now then um [Music] here um and this is um um um blog that we have for the class and in this part
the students make some uh i don't know um post about uh about hypothesis no and they are they in his uh that this um
tool uh help us to learn and how to face the copied with these and uh no uh if you are not new no uh jun they are talking about the past
no the me in the past is not going to use again the photocopies and then no and this is the ethel this is a i don't know a slang that you say in spanish or at least mexico is something that you need to use
now and this another one uh um they are explaining no if we are ready to use this kind of uh of tools and in in this part they are
criticizing the professors that um can don't want to use this kind of resources and whatever whatever you know and i i share this with you and i share i don't know there's a lot
of tools but i i share the links there it's great i'm so happy to see that actually because um it's so rare that we actually get to hear actual student voices at gatherings like this we try
we try our best to bring students into the fold and it's really hard because of course what's in it for them right mm-hmm yes that's why i was so i don't know if you managed to catch um the keynote with manuel and frida
uh it was uh that was yesterday right having trouble remembering all the things you don't know which day is today yeah i've forgotten which day it is but um no i think frida was the okay i don't know yeah she was she was a
former student uh of of um emmanuel's and so uh you know she still had that she still had the student perspective it was really good to hear that um
uh i uh i we've still got some a little bit of time here and i know that there's one topic sort of looming in the background that we might want to talk about because i know rosario and i have talked about it quite a bit and federico may have his thoughts as
well and that's um this sort of circling around something that diego um put into the the question answers here around um hypothesis translation
and by that i think we mean translations for the user experience elements of hypothesis right um because obviously a text can be any in any language and an annotation can be in any language that's just only the user sort of chrome
around that is the part that might need translation um and then improving mobile support which is in a way a whole other topic right um and i'll just preface it by saying because what i'd really like to do
is hear your thoughts on this i'll process it by saying that first of all a little bit of a caveat you know we're an incredibly small team in hypothesis and so we're not always able to do everything that's a brilliant and great idea all at the same time
um so that's a little by way of just admitting that i think there's a lot of work to do here and we haven't done it all yet um so for instance just the way that the hypothesis application is constructed it isn't
built in a way that makes for easy internationalization or localization already which is that's our bad actually it should have been designed that way from the from the ground up and it wasn't and so we're going to have to at some point really take that on
and and and retool it then it can become a situation that you see in other open source projects where it's very easy for other people to provide translations into almost any other language right by providing
simple translation files which almost i've even done it i mean you don't even have to be a technical person to provide those right because you're just going in and kind of presenting alternatives for all the words that exist in the user interface so i'll just have to say that you know
that's a ways off there's some other fish that we need to fry before that to use an expression that's common in english at least i don't know do you do you have a similar expression like that in italian federico to we have
other fish to fry i don't know if you know that one uh yeah i've heard it before no we talk about potatoes potatoes and it's spanish rosario is there a we have other fish to fry if you know that
saying no in spanish same thing right well we can thank the americas uh for for potatoes to begin with right because they're uh they are uh uh indigenous indigenous to the american
yes but here in mexico we prefer them yes always always um i'm always impressed when i think about all the fruits and vegetables that are native to the americas and how intrinsic they are to a cuisine like italy's and
yet they didn't even get them until after there was a colonial experience but anyway that's a whole other topic um and so i just kind of um and i know rosario
you've done so much great work in helping to provide guidance in spanish for hypothesis which is outside the user experience right this question of what guidance could possibly be provided in other languages
and we've wrestled with that issue as well and i know you and i have gone back and forth about it a little bit because um we end up producing new guidance and then as soon as if we're going to go through a translation process then that would
create extra work as as new guidance and and revised guidance goes out the door and you of course generously offered uh folks that might be willing to help with that as well so you're you're solving problems more than
you're creating them that's for you yeah no i was thinking not on me but on some students that they can help because they are really happy with the using of of this platform and uh
i don't know i i'm i do believe that if um you can offer some resources uh or tutorials or the information in other languages um like no spanish probably there were
much more people involved or interesting not not not not specifically in in a hypothesis but they're related with all their the the social annotation and i don't know
ecosystem no which is so rich and federico did you did in working with your students was there the issue of having the guidance all be in english or did you bite your heads against that um i
i mean at the beginning of the the italian text i made one brief half page of instructions about the basic functions of a hypothesis but i think they didn't have any issue in
taking up how to use that some some of them are even posted videos i i just put like three annotations as an example one using tags one using a video so that
had an example of what they could do so you used annotation itself as the kind of documentation yes but really just three no more than that and there was enough yeah no but i think that the
the context of europe is different in latin america because in europe there are i don't know most of most of the people they speak english as a second language but in latin america this is not the case in
latin america most of the people speak spanish or portuguese in the case of brazil even we can communicate pretty well with that opportunity it's kind of
similar uh but here in latin america there are very few people who english um i don't know with some flu fluency then is really needed to the the information in spanish because there
are few people who speak english that's a shame yeah yeah although i i don't blame them for not speaking english because i can help of course and i i'm pretty
sure that we can organize a i don't know a very nice and fun group uh interested in help just for collaborate i'm pretty sure
yeah one thing that i was um i did a brief experiment of just looking at some of the um hypothesis help guidance pages using google translate when quote unquote automatically translate the english into spanish
and the spanish translation actually seemed to be okay it had a few issues but the real main issue was that of course we use images in some of our documentation and add english labels to the images
and so that in addition to being kind of an accessibility issue um that we address through all text but then it becomes a translation issue as well because then you've got to make new images with different tags and so forth
or do it in a completely different way so it is an issue um well i'm not even gonna uh really raise the uh question of the of um you know the mobile interface too
deeply but i did want to bring it up because one thing i'm interested in is in the context that you guys are working in um and i know rosario mentioned this um that a lot of folks maybe are only have
mobile devices in which to encounter their teaching and learning experiences right and so i know that it's very challenging to use hypothesis on a mobile device as possible but it's challenging
um did you did you run into that issue rosario with your students yes most more all of them ask about the mobile application because as i told you at the beginning
most of them only um i don't know continue their classes through the mobile i don't know the phone or probably tablet but not because you know there's a complex situation some of them they have a lot of people
at their house no then probably they only have one computer no the desktop and then i don't know probably they are three or four brothers and sisters and they need to um
to to share the devices because of that they they wondering if uh the the mobile mobile applications could be used and i said no and they were so
sad but okay then i uh of course i think it's um i don't know a challenge and if i may say i i think there's another big challenge and is related with the the job that is
made by the editors uh journal editors in latin america because you know there are a lot of journals that are made probably with this um electronic um
users like open a journal system or this kind of things but for example open journal systems has an um i don't know an application in order to allow allow the the the social annotations of hypothesis
but if the editor don't open or don't allow the the annotation is not possible then there are a lot of journals in latin america that could be annotated
but as the editor doesn't know the editors didn't know that this exists they don't they don't name i don't know active uh or um activated this um this bottom and because of that it's not possible to
annotate their journals i think it's um i don't know it's another it's a challenge but they it's not the challenge between professors and between students but between between editors in order that they allow the annotations in their
in their platforms yeah and that's actually that's a really good point and that's i mean we struggle with it all the time is trying to make annotation available in different contexts right not forget about mobile desktop just like different
publications right to start with or different reading environments and part of the reason why we're forming this um social learning across content coalition that dan spoke about on in this monday announcement
and there will be a panel about it tomorrow is to try to bring the folks who kind of control the all the publishing platforms together in order to get some sort of interoperability going so that annotation
regardless of what system is being used for it is sort of available um across more platforms i'm sorry curious federico maybe you have other things to riff on here too but did your students get involved with the mobile versus
desktop issue yes i even included a question in my question to know about the device they were mostly using and majority of them were using the laptop or desktop computer all the time
some of them reported to be using the mobile phone or a tablet but um i mean i've tried it myself and it's manageable you can annotate in on the mobile phone
but it's uh i think the most annoying thing is that it's covering the text completely once you want to annotate something so not having the side-by-side text and annotation it's maybe the
the the major drawbacks of this system at the moment yeah and i mean that's that's actually why we we really believe that probably some sort of native mobile app is only is going to be the only way to solve this because the user experience
is going to have to be fundamentally different um because of the small screen real estate like there's just no way that you know on this tiny screen that you can fit everything that you need to do to read and annotate
and all together and so it's going to have to be it's going to have to be a little bit different um and again i'll throw this we're a small team uh excuse out there but we haven't we haven't gotten there yet i will i will say that it is possible
but boy is it challenging and it depends too on the browser you're using on your mobile device and so forth and so on um well i uh i know that we're getting pretty close to the time that we're supposed to stop here at the top of the
hour which is only a term that i only learned in english very recently myself it's when the hands on the clock both reach the top or when the when the big hand reaches the top i guess well i wanted to
congratulate you for the stamina and keep it going and until now yeah i don't know for how many hours it's a great great work and you must be exhausted you know actually i'm enough of an
extrovert that this kind of experience actually charges my battery and so um i may i may not be making any sense anymore but i do i do i feel really good so i appreciate that i've also turned myself into black
and white um as a way to sort of bask by the bags under my eyes maybe but i also i don't love the way that i end up because i'm the host i appear in between you like i'm separating you or something
and so um i thought maybe it made me move it to the background a little bit more to be in black and white well i don't know if it works or not um well i do i really do i we don't have to leave right now but we just got a couple more minutes and i
really wanted to um try to end on a graceful note here and i was thinking um i know a lot of different ideas and thoughts and so forth have passed back and forth i really have appreciated both of you
being being here speaking really um carefully about your practice and then also giving some really clear examples about what's happened and i'm wondering if if as you leave us now um if
anything new has come to you and you're thinking about social annotation as a result of participating in this panel and so i'm throwing that out there um hoping that maybe something something a new arose
for you in this experience and i don't know federico did anything new happen for you here new thoughts new ideas yes absolutely i i knew about a few
research about um done in mexico and and in spain but it's so great to hear more from rosario's research because i actually i think i mean there's a lot of
work done in in the research i mean i'm talking about what kind of research is done on social annotation and social reading and i think there's a lot done in in spanish i think there were a few nationally funded
projects also internationally funded between spain argentina and mexico and but of course the problem is always the communication between the anglophone ward and the spanish-speaking world
so even though there is research um about english um english speaking app let's say there's so much work done about the the spanish communities
annotating text which is not known so i i'm trying to always quote the work from from spanish speaking community when in my work to make this known to to other researchers
yeah yeah it feels like an iceberg situation right where you know there's this tip of the iceberg um showing above the water of what's happening and then there's this huge mass of activity going on that rosario's obviously more plugged into than i am
that i'm only just hearing about so i'm totally with you on that federico about you rosario are you taking away any new thoughts or ideas no well first of all uh thanks for the opportunity to be here
and to share the experiences that i have had using the social annotation and just saying that um i'm so i'm self i don't know confident i'm i'm very sure that it is kind of uh
tools and a social annotation and all these open open uh platforms uh can be were very well welcomed in an environment like in latin america because here in latin america we have
been a very i don't know active with the open access movement that we end with the open science movement because it's it's it's really useful for us you know it's it's so powerful the way in which we have
been working in this uh um in this environment and this in this ecosystem and i think that in in in this way all the social annotation tools can uh i don't know contribute to
end the circle of production consumption and of course communication of uh uh in this case of scholarly scholarly communication in general then i really appreciate the opportunity to be here i want to i don't know thanks
and and i hope one day we can be together in in a new face to face no not throughout the screen
the screen of my computer for sure well i i'm a a big fan of both mexico city and milan so i i would jump at the chance of course jump with the chance to come either
place um organize the next day i am t20 i don't know 23 probably after the fun day weekends no here in mexico oh that would be amazing i would love that mexico city is one of my favorite cities on earth to be sure
um i haven't spent as much time in milan but i would love to i would love to spend more time there you're officially invited thank you definitely of course we will make it happen at some point well my uh actually on a personal note my uh my
younger daughter is planning to attend college in um spain so i spend i plan to be spending more time both speaking spanish and visiting europe so maybe both of those things will intersect and okay i'll be able to do everything
great well thank you so much um let's let's go ahead and bring it to an end here and i again thank you so much for coming i really appreciate your joining
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