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yes nicholas lumen used the zettocaston notecard system but what many people are doing or suggesting to do with their zettel custom system often using digital tools is not the same thing it
represents lumen's fundamental theory of systems to create the emergence of ideas but zettocastin and systems theory are different things sounds like you were just arguing semantics no
because the zettocastin method has constraints and affordances which impact how we take notes process notes use notes and use the tools we have i'm listening the systems theory is the
study of systems i.e cohesive groups of interrelated interdependent parts that can be natural or human made every system is bounded by space and time influenced by its environment defined by
its structure and purpose and expressed through its functioning you're gonna have to break that down a system is defined by a boundary between itself and its environment dividing it from an infinitely complex
or chaotic exterior and the interior of the system being a zone of reduced complexity communication within a system operates by selecting only a limited amount of information available outside
this process is also called reduction of complexity very original the criteria for which information is selected and processed is meaning meaning differentiating one set of potential
space to another set of potential space so the meaning we put on the information decides if it's part of our system or not in short and obviously meaning to you will be different from the meaning
of someone else okay each system has a distinctive identity that is constantly reproduced in its communication and it depends on what is considered meaningful and what is not if
a system fails to maintain that identity it ceases to exist as a system and dissolves back into the environment it emerged from so there is ongoing communication in a system to keep it
around yes lumen called the process of reproduction from elements previously filtered from over complex environments auto poesis a term from cognitive biology
a system capable of producing and maintaining itself creating its own parts like our note-taking system each note is a part we've created yes and to participate in communication we must be
able to render our thoughts and perceptions into elements of communication this can only happen through a medium of communication thoughts and perceptions can't be directly transmitted and therefore the
transmission needs to be received so someone needs to be able to hear it read it or feel it to receive it so basically if you write down a note it's
in the system and if you don't it's not it sounds simple when you put a context to it i guess it becomes more complex when you have more things in the dynamic environment yeah now systems must
continually construct themselves and their perspective of reality through processing and distinction between system and environment and itself reproduce themselves as the product of their own elements
social systems are defined by lumen not as action but as recursive communication so if we stop adding notes to the system it fades into the environment not just
adding notes but communicating with the parts ah so not doing anything to the note will lead it to fade into the environment that is the theory
in lumens terms humans are neither part of society nor of any specific systems just as they are not part of a conversation people make conversation possible lumen himself once said that he
was not interested in people now that doesn't mean he didn't care but rather alluding to the scope of the theory where the communicative behavior of people is constituted but not defined by
the dynamics of the social system and society is constituted but not defined by the communicative behavior of people yeah you lost me uh people are parts that
make up the environment of society and societies are parts that build up the environment of people whatever um what's this got to do with note taking well lumen writes a system of content like a
book structure would mean that one commits oneself once and for all decades in advance to a certain sequence so the book wouldn't be part of the system it
would be part of the environment if it is taken out of the system yes but the content can be part of the system why did he write so many books then to communicate the parts to the
others in the system that he was in which would be the academic research fields he looked at like complexity theory collective behavior nonlinear dynamics evolution theory and many many more areas of sociology and science so
even though they were books because they were being added to by notes and by research and updated books they are still part of the system in theory
i guess his system was his zettel caster notes and like their 70 books and 400 articles that he wrote yes all evolving over time which is that
auto poesis term mentioned earlier right and the settle cast and note taking method is built from the theory of systems thinking exactly general systems theory was developed in the late 1960s
and early 1970s being applied into organizational life in the late 1970s which opposed the classical management approach of organization what are the main differences
the classical management system sees us as machines wanting efficiency productivity and control suggesting there is one right way the best way to do things whereas
systems theory looks at the whole organism looking to describe and explain how the organization works not a control everything approach looking to achieve
multiple ways to accomplish various goals right in an organization or for a developing person we have the input the process and then the output okay
the input in a business or job could be the resource stock people boxes those sorts of things whereas in knowledge management they would be the videos podcasts blogs lectures creators
yourself and of course your tech be it digital or analog then there are the processes that take place which in business could be how you make the product or service an example could be creating content by researching
a video scripting a video uh recording the video editing the video but for knowledge management that could be identifying highlightable points key points collecting ideas linking ideas or
scripting out thoughts then there is the output which in business is delivering the product or service to customers receiving profit working with clients or dealing with the waste of the process in knowledge
management that could be producing a blog post video or other types of content or could be using the ideas brought together to make changes to studying workflows or literally anything the
ideas may impact so how do i make my productivity system or note-taking system the idea of developing a system a productivity system is not to create a system as they
already exist but to adapt the parts of the systems you have control over when the environment impacts a system you are working in but i'm not productive you still have a system to do things but the
parts of the system may need evolving or changing the environment could also be a contributing factor how a key part of systems theory is that the organizations and therefore you are open to the environment and i don't just
mean the weather systems have permeable boundaries so information can flow in and flow out which suggests that there is an exchange with the environment but as you can imagine the environment
is very unpredictable spiking trends lots of information and just like life in general exactly other businesses competitors creators people influences may change something
that impacts what you do how you act what you need to learn trends obviously impact what you consume the algorithms impact what you see and influence your way of thinking in groups of people you may have what is known as
boundary spanners that do environmental scanning so they are looking at trends doing keyword research to find what people are looking for or for knowledge management you may be looking for new research updated opinions or evolving
theories that can impact what you write how you write it or changes you may make to your actions don't we all already do that many individuals do the environmental scanning when we are
looking to learn but we don't all have the time patience or focus to look heavily into environmental factors that may impact our notes and therefore our learning a good example of this would be when consuming a piece of content that
says science says do you look at the reference if they put one in the content the piece of content is only one piece or one part the reference and other
related information builds up the system so lateral consumption synthesis critique are all part to environmental scanning hollism is a term used to describe the system as whole not as a collection of
separate pieces so your notes are pieces of a system which together is greater than the sum of its parts this suggests that two individual notes together is actually worth more than if they were
seen individually okay so actually seeing the connections or at least the connected notes is better than seeing the notes individually yes the individual parts are interdependent and
interact through mutual feedback processes so in business if someone is sick or is isolating for some reason it would influence the other workers needing to pick up that missing time
in knowledge management if a note idea or concept was moved changed or deleted then the interconnected relationships between other notes would need to be looked at if a note is deleted related
notes may not make sense because of the missing context or the note was changed again it may not make sense because of the different context wait so is that why in the zettocastin system you have
like the same note just evolved over time because of the changing context yes alongside the fact it was a paper and pen system and making new update notes was easier than scribbling out parts of
the last note lumen wrote that original running text is often interrupted by hundreds of slips of paper which wouldn't really help if you had loads of scribbles as well
that is where like the the digital side of note taking is better than analog right mainly but the systems have goals but are not like classical systems that have the best way they are continuous
and negotiated so they will change and adapt as the system is impacted by the environment you're saying my note-taking needs a goal to bring in another fancy word equifinality is a principle system
thinkers use to suggest a given state can be reached by many potential means in other words there is no one best way to organize and all ways of organizing are not equally efficient because what
may work for one situation or one person may not work for another situation or another person so i don't need a goal but if i do have a goal i can get there in various ways with this
theory yes for example if you are traveling from your house to the gym and the roads are empty you may drive but if the roads are blocked and you need to take a longer detour cycling may
be better unless you have a flat tire in which case jogging or walking may be better um unless you have a like a knee problem and maybe you just don't go to the gym what was your point systems
theory suggests there is not one way to organize information right feedback is another important part negative feedback looking to correct or reduce deviations in the systems to move
towards the goals or positive feedback which changes or grows the system's current processes but positive feedback isn't always good but it is positive so why call it
positive feedback if it can be negative feedback because the impact on the person part is positive but it may result in a negative in the system changes that peer that is never doing homework
or doesn't do their job properly doesn't listen gets rewarded with a sticker promotion or more holiday will lead to others to do the same thing a group not doing homework not working or not
listening properly may result in the system needing negative feedback in knowledge management there are plenty of trendy examples where a technique
framework or philosophy works well for someone and gains attraction other people start using it adapting it trying to implement it but the system they have is different from the system the original person had then negative
feedback is required for changing the system and the cycle of development continues so just because a part of someone else's system is positive for them it doesn't mean it's going to be
positive for me yes so positive feedback from them impacting you may lead to negative feedback removing things so i shouldn't learn
from others and use what they've done or what they're doing that's not what i said positive feedback to another won't always mean positive feedback to you so copying another person won't mean you
will get the same results so you're saying i need to work in my environment using parts from their system bring it into my system and see if it works for me yeah an important note to make here is that
entropy is a key part of systems in other words if you leave it alone it will fall apart if you don't clean your house it will be messy dirty things may wear down and disease could grow the same thing happens in your notes if you
don't process or sort through what you have it becomes messy chaotic and potentially stressful to look at this is where your perception can become a contributing factor which is a
conversation for another time right how do you do that well traditional zetterkasson was pen and paper so i could argue because i use obsidian i'm not doing zettocastin on that basis but
you do it just in a digital way well my notes are non-hierarchical but i don't have a numbering system unless you class the name of a note a system but zettocaston is based on time
created 1 1.2 1.2 a et cetera whereas my notes are names of things that are changed and adapted and don't really follow a timeline that is just the number bit which is also the timeline
part which builds up the foundation of the referencing you still reference in the same way no i don't because i have inline references like zettocastin but i don't have a previous reference note or
a future reference note i have related topical notes and backlinks and source notes but in zettocastin backlinks didn't exist topical notes were on an index page including keywords and not
all source notes were included because of the size of the paper okay there were literature notes which were referenced which were often only one or two points whereas my literature notes
can have upwards of 30 points they are still the same thing no because one article may have 30 notes whereas for me one article has one note okay and because i have my topical notes
at the top of each note i don't have a keyword index which was a big part of zetter casten as a starting point fine in addition zetto casten was his slip box full of note cards but his system
included the books and articles which are in my obsidian my zettel caston has long form articles and linear storylines which goes against the non-linear dynamics of the note card system that
just means you're not doing the atomic notes thing which was part of zettel casten slip box it means i am using the system's theory that zettocaston was built with but i'm including elements of
network theory in my notes because the digital landscape we have now allows for visualizations which nicholas lehmann just didn't have then of course there is the search features and all the other
digital features we have with software that again he didn't have access to but i am sure he would have used the tools if he had access to the tools probably but zettel casten slip box has
constraints that i don't have and i have affordances which zettelkasten didn't have meaning i'm using a different method with a similar foundation based on systems theory can you run me through an example my
cognitive load theory note has a synopsis not part of zettocastin then index links not part of zettelkasten and the backlinks go to a variety of different places some of them narratives around a
concept are those evolving narratives and because my system's old also some single concept notes that need to be part of the conversation before they move out into the environment the rest
of the page looks pretty long it is cognitive architecture could be a note related to cognitive load theory and then biological primary and biological secondary skills but instead are one
note if i want to reference biological primary skills anywhere i can search for it like i would if it was a page just the global search instead of the page search or because i know my notes i
would just link to cognitive load theory and change the alias on the page so i know what i'm looking for when i get there this video is long enough as it is so if you still want to discuss the differences leave a comment on youtube
or join the discord link in the description below a walkthrough of my zettocastin 2.0 if that's better is linked in the cards above and on the end screen showing now
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