BECAUSE HE'S TOO STRONG. THEY HAVE A STRONGMAN RUNNING THE COUNTRY. >> DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T SAY THESE THINGS BY ACCIDENT. HE IS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN TO AVOID GOING TO JAIL. THE QUESTION NOW IS WHAT MUST DEMOCRATS AND AMERICANS AND GENERAL DO TO PREVENT AN ANTI-DEMOCRATIC DEMAGOGUE FROM SEIZING POWER AGAIN. THERE ARE SOME EARLY SIGNS OF TROUBLE FOR BIDEN, SUPPORT FOR HIM HAS WANED IN RECENT MONTHS, ESPECIALLY AMONGST BLACK VOTERS AND YOUNG PROGRESSIVES. THE GOOD NEWS IS, DEMOCRATS, THE ELECTION IS TEN MONTHS AWAY. THERE IS TIME TO SHORE UP SUPPORT, AND THEY HAVE SOME WINNING ISSUES ON THEIR SIDE. THIS, WEEK BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN WILL SHARPEN ITS FOCUS ON ABORTION RIGHTS TO COINCIDE WITH THE ANNIVERSARY OF ROE V. WADE.

THEY ARE ALSO CONTINUES TO BE GOOD NEWS ABOUT THE ECONOMY WITH THE S&P 500 SETTING A NEW RECORD HIGH LAST WEEK ON UNEMPLOYMENT AT HISTORIC LOWS, WAGES INCREASES, AND CONSUMER SENTIMENT INCREASING DRAMATICALLY. ALL THINGS THAT THE CAMPAIGN CAN AND SHOULD HIGHLIGHTS AND THE MONTHS AHEAD. IN CONTRAST, WE MIGHT SEE TRUMP IN COURT MORE OFTEN THAN ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITH HIS CRIMINAL TRIAL SET TO BEGIN AS EARLY AS MARCH. STILL, MANY OF THE HYPOTHETICAL HEAD TO HEAD SURVEYS BETWEEN TRUMP AND BIDEN SHOWED THEM PULLING WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR. ESSENTIALLY, A DEAD HEAT. ONE YEAR FROM TODAY, A NEW PRESIDENTIAL TERM WILL HAVE JUST BEGUN. THE MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE WARNING THAT ADMINISTRATION

WILL BE THE ONE WHO IS ABLE TO COALESCE SUPPORT FROM THE DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF HIS PARTY, GET THEM TO TURN OUT AND VOTE. THIS NOVEMBER. JOINING ME IS FRANK LANCE, A VETERAN POLLSTER AND CONSULTANT, ALSO WITH US AS A FORMER GOP STRATEGIST, RICK WILSON. HE IS COFOUNDER OF THE LINCOLN PROJECT AN AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, RUNNING AGAINST THE DEVIL. A PLOT TO SAVE AMERICA FROM DEMOCRATS. AND DEMOCRATS, FROM THEMSELVES. GENTLEMEN, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH. THANKS FOR BEING WITH US. FRANK, YOU'RE IN THE COLD. AT NEW HAMPSHIRE, RIGHT NOW, YOU HAVE ATTENDED SOME TRUMP RALLIES. LATELY, I THINK YOU ARE AT THE RALLY LAST NIGHT. YESTERDAY MORNING, I HAD AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION WITH MCKAY COPPINS OF THE ATLANTIC, HE ACTUALLY PROPOSED THAT NON-TRUMP SUPPORTERS SHOULD GO

TO A TRUMP RALLY TO EXPERIENCE WHAT THE ATMOSPHERE IS LIKE, TO HEAR TRUMP SPEAK, TO WITNESS THE FOREVER THAT HE ELICITS FROM HIS SUPPORTERS. YOU HAVE THIS UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE YOU SPEAK TO REPUBLICANS AND CLOSE ENVIRONMENTS, AND FOCUS GROUPS, AND YOU SPEAK TO THEM AND THINGS LIKE THE TRUMP RALLIES. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN AS IT RELATES TO DONALD TRUMP AS A ALMOST MESSIANIC FIGURE IN THIS ELECTION? >> YOU, KNOW I CAN'T DISAGREE WITH THE WAY THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING HIM. THE LEVEL OF INTENSITY, THE PASSION OF THESE TRUMP VOTERS IS SO STRONG. THEY LITERALLY, THEY WORD ON THEIR SLEEVES. THEY'VE GOT THE SHIRTS, JACKETS,

TRUMP HATS. MORE THAN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE. AND, FACT THAT IS WHY I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T WIN ON TUESDAY. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS VOTERS CAN'T WAIT TO VOTE. I'VE GOT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, CANDID WITH YOU, THE FEEDING HIM WITH JOE BIDEN IS GOING TO BE MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT, BECAUSE TRUMP'S VOTE IS GOING TO BE THERE, AND I'M NOT AS CONVINCED, AND YOU DID MENTION LATINOS, WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE THE CRITICAL VOTING GROUP IN 2024. THEY'VE MOVED AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENT. THEY MOVE TOWARDS DONALD TRUMP. THAT IS WHERE THE BATTLEGROUND IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND EVERY STATE THAT MATTERS, THE LATINO VOTE CAN BE THE DIFFERENCE IN WINNING AND LOSING. >> RICK, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT. THERE IS THAT, QUESTION THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IS THE DEGREE TO WHICH DONALD TRUMP, NOT LOOKING, LIKE NOT RHONDA SCENT, IT'S NOT ANYBODY ELSE WHO RAN AGAINST HIM, HAS A INFLUENCE ON HIS FOLLOWERS THAT IS NOT DIMINISHED BY THE CRAZY THINGS HE SAYS, THE DICTATORIAL THINGS HE SAYS, BY THE FACT THAT HE IS CHARGED WITH STEP. HIS SUPPORTERS DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT FROM THE THREE OF US OR ANYONE ELSE. THAT THEY SHOULD BE MAKING OTHER CHOICES. JOE BIDEN, AS A NORMAL, EFFICIENT, EFFECTIVE PRESIDENT, IS NOT ELICITING THAT RESPONSE AND THE GROUPS THAT FRANK AND I

ARE TALKING ABOUT. AMONG SOME LATINOS, AMONG SOME AFRICAN AMERICANS, AMONG SOME PROGRESSIVES. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THAT? HOW DO YOU MAKE PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS DOING, WHAT JOE BIDEN IS DOING ON SOME ISSUES, UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A BINARY FIGHT COME NOVEMBER? >> I DO THINK AMONG PROGRESSIVES AND YOUNGER VOTERS RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE MAKING ONE OF THOSE ENEMY OF THE GOODS ARGUMENTS INTO A POLITICAL LIABILITY FOR THE PRESIDENTS. I DO THINK THAT WILL START TO CLARIFY AS WE MOVE CLOSER TO THE ELECTION AND THEIR OBJECTIONS TO JOE BIDEN WILL SEE MORE LIKE A POLITICAL LUXURY AS TRUMP, AS TRUMP

SOLIDIFIES HIS BASE AND THE PARTY, AND AS TRUMP SOLIDIFIES HIS POSITION VIS-À-VIS -- I DO THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WILL HELP A LITTLE BIT, OR MAYBE A LOT, WITH AFRICAN AMERICANS AND WITH LATINO VOTERS AS THEY GO FORWARD. THERE IS A LEG, GENERALLY SPEAKING, AND THE ECONOMY. AS MY COLLEAGUE JOE TRIPPY ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT, IT TAKES 3 TO 7 MONTHS FOR THE ECONOMY, GOOD NEWS ON THE ECONOMY TO PERCOLATE UP. I ALSO THINK THAT STEVE BANNON IS HEAVILY INFLICTED TO TRUMP'S BELIEF SYSTEM OF I HAVE NO ENEMIES TO MY RIGHT. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE FEELING VERY CONFIDENT

ABOUT BRINGING BACK THAT SORT OF WHITE REPLACEMENT THEORY THAT'S ALT-RIGHT MESSAGE THAT SURROUNDS TRUMP. EVEN IF HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE DOING, THAT EVEN THOUGH HE DOES THE VERMIN TALK AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK YOU WILL SEE A VERY CAUTIONARY FIELD AROUND SOME OF THOSE GROUPS AS WE GO FORWARD INTO THE REAL HEART OF THE FIGHT. >> AS SOMEONE WHO TALKS TO THESE PEOPLE, WHO WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMITTED TO DONALD TRUMP, WHAT IS THE MESSAGE TO THEM? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THOSE WHO ARE RALLY GOERS, LIKE THOSE WHO ARE OF DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHO ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THEIR MIND CHANGED. I THINK MOST PEOPLE, CONSERVATIVES AND LIBERALS, HAVE SAID THAT IS A FOOLS GAME.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE. THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH PEOPLE FOR DONALD TRUMP TO WIN THIS ELECTION, AND FOR JOE BIDEN TO WIN THIS ELECTION. THEY ARE NOT DIE HARD DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS. WHAT IS THE MESSAGE TO THE REST OF THEM WHO DON'T LOVE JOE BIDEN, BUT NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE ACTUAL THREATS OF DONALD TRUMP. NOT JUST DONALD TRUMP, BY THE WAY, AS YOU KNOW, IT IS A MOVEMENT THAT DONALD TRUMP HAPPENS TO BE AT THE HEAD OF. >> THERE ARE THREE ATTRIBUTES. NUMBER ONE -- >> WEEK, WE'LL GO TO YOU ON THAT. >> WE HAVE TALKED TO A GROUP OF

MODEL VOTERS, SEVEN TO 11% OF THE POPULATION INSIDE THE REPUBLICAN VOTING POOL. THEY ARE EITHER ANTI TRUMP, OR SOFT TRUMP, OR CAN BE PERSUADED TO AT LEAST NOT PULLED A TICKET FOR EITHER DIRECTION. THOSE PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE SUBURBAN, AFFLUENT, EDUCATED. THEY TEND TO HAVE CHILDREN. THEY DON'T LIKE THE, THEY DON'T LIKE THE CHAOS OF TRUMP. THEY DON'T LIKE THE VULGARITY OF TRUMP. THEY DON'T LIKE THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES. THEY DON'T LIKE THE VIOLENCE. THEY DON'T LIKE THE EVANGELICAL AURA AROUND TRUMP NOW WHERE HE

HAS BEEN MADE INTO A GOD BY THE MAGA HARD-CORE. THEY ARE ALSO DRIVEN BY DOBBS TO A GREAT DEGREE. THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN UNDERCURRENT, ESPECIALLY AMONG FEMALE REPUBLICANS, THAT IS NOT AS RIGIDLY PRO-LIFE AS THE DOBBS DECISION, AND ALL THE THINGS THEY HAVE SEEN FROM REPUBLICAN STATE LEGISLATURES SINCE THEN. >> FRANK, LET ME ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION. AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE MOSTLY CONVINCED THAT THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A HAND-TO-HAND BATTLE WITH TRUMP SUPPORTERS. THAT IS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU AGREE WITH ME, THAT TRAIN HAS LEFT THE STATION. WHAT ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE? >> THREE WORDS.

THREE ATTRIBUTES. NUMBER ONE IS RESULTS. THEY WANT HIM TO COME IN AND CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A MEANINGFUL, MEASURABLE DIFFERENCE AND THE DAY-TO-DAY QUALITY OF LIFE OF WHO THEY ARE, WHERE THEY LEFT, THEIR COMMUNITIES. NUMBER TWO, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A DETAILED PLAN OF ACTION. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO READ IT. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW IT. THEY WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THE NEXT PRESIDENT HAS A SPECIFIC IDEA OF WHERE THINGS NEED TO GO. NUMBER THREE, THEY DON'T WANT IDEOLOGY. I KNOW THIS IS GOING TO DISAGREE WITH SO MANY OF YOUR VIEWERS, BUT THEY REALLY WANT COMMON SENSE. THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T CHANGE LEFT TO RIGHT, DOESN'T

CHOOSE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO GETS THE JOB DONE IN A SMART, INTELLIGENCE, AFFECTIVE WAY. THE CHALLENGE, AGAIN, I SAY THIS TO VIEWERS, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU CARE ABOUT THIS SO MUCH, IS I DO BELIEVE THERE'S GOING TO BE A THIRD PARTY. I BELIEVE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A BINARY CHOICE. WHAT YOU CAN SEE HAPPENING IS THAT ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN THE CENTER, 20, 25, EVEN 30%, WILL SEARCH FOR ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE TO TRUMP AND TO BIDEN. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO START TO CONSIDER, EVEN NOW IN JANUARY 2024. >> RICK WILSON, HE WAS A LITTLE BIT WHEN FRANK SAID THAT. >> LOOK, THE ONLY OUTCOME OF A

THIRD PARTY, ESPECIALLY IN THE KNOW LATER SIDE OF THE EQUATION, IS DONALD TRUMP IS ELECTED AGAIN. THOSE VOTERS ARE MODELING, THEY LOOK A LOT LIKE SOFT AMOK RATS, SOFT REPUBLICANS. THEY WILL, IF YOU END UP IN A POSITION LIKE ARIZONA, FOR INSTANCE, WHERE NO LABELS GETS ON THE BALLOT AND PULLS A CERTAIN NON TRIVIAL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE, YOU'RE GOING TO END UP WITH DONALD TRUMP HOLDING THE LINE, AND WINNING THE ELECTION, BECAUSE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE STRUCTURE OF THE COUNTRY. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FANS OF RFK. HE DRAWS A LITTLE BIT AWAY FROM REPUBLICAN VOTERS BECAUSE, AWAY FROM TRUMP, BECAUSE OF ALL THE

INSANITY, CONSPIRACY THEORIES, ANTI VAX STAFF. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND A THIRD PARTY, THE OUTCOME, IT'S INEVITABLY THAT THEY CANNOT WIN 270 ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES, BUT THEY CAN SPOIL THE ELECTION FOR DONALD TRUMP. >> FRANK. >> THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT CORRECT. WE HAVE DONE THE SAME KIND OF WORK, AND IF THE CANDIDATE TOWARD JOE MANCHIN, HE ACTUALLY DRAWS MORE VOTES AWAY FROM THE REPUBLICAN BECAUSE HE IS SUCH A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS. IN THE END, WE ALL HAVE TO BE IN SUPPORT OF DEMOCRACY. AND THE, AND WE ALL HAVE TO BE IN SUPPORT OF ALLOWING PEOPLE, ALLOWING PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATE THAT THEY WANT. I AM SO AFRAID. I'M DOING EVERYTHING I CAN AND ENTITIES LIKE THIS TO SAY,

LET'S STOP VOTING FOR THE CANDIDATES THAT WE DISLIKE THE LEAST, AND LET'S START VOTING FOR CANDIDATES THAT WE ACTUALLY WANTS TO SOLVE THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE AND DAY TO DAY LIFE. LET'S BE POSITIVE, NOT NEGATIVE. LET'S NOT TERRITORY THEY'RE APART. PLEASE, I DO BELIEVE THAT 2024, OUR DEMOCRACY, I AGREE WITH JOE BIDEN ON THIS, OUR DEMOCRACY IS AT STAKE. BUT IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE IF WE CONTINUE TO POLARIZE AND VOTE FOR NEGATIVITY. >> WHERE, AT THE U.N. THE LINCOLN PROJECT HAD THOUGHT ABOUT, THAT THE JOE MANCHIN NO LABELS, THIRD PARTY RUN. YOUR TAKE? >> LOOK, I BELIEVE THAT JOE MANCHIN IS OUT OF THE GAME FOR

LABELS RIGHT NOW. THE LOOKING AT OTHER FOLKS IN THAT AREA. WE BELIEVE THAT THEY TEND TO DRAW MORE CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS IN OUR POLLING AND MODELING, AND FRANK AND I CAN DISAGREE ON THIS. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IN AN ELECTION WHERE WE ALL AGREE THAT DONALD TRUMP IS BACKED BY AN AUTHORITARIAN MOVEMENTS, AND THAT DONALD TRUMP IS A FUNDAMENTALLY AND SMALL D DEMOCRATIC PERSON, WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE AND THE CONSTITUTION, WHO WILL CALL ON THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC, WHO COMES AND TO THE ELECTION WITH TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGES. FOR ME, RIGHT NOW, I LOVE THE IDEA OF A THIRD PARTY, A

BROADER PARTY SYSTEM. BUT LIKE ST. AUGUSTINE SAID, THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE WE ARE IN A FIGHT BETWEEN JOE BIDEN AND DONALD, TRUMP EVERYTHING ELSE IS A DISTRACTION, EVERYONE ELSE PUTS THIS COUNTRY AT RISK. IF WE BELIEVE THE LUXURY GOOD OF IMAGINING THAT A THIRD PARTY COULD WIN 270 ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES, WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED, AND WILL NOT HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIME, GIVEN THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE IN A STATE WHERE WE HAVE A LOVELY THIRD-PARTY IMAGINARY CANDIDATES, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN THIS POSITION WHERE STEVE BANNON, STEPHEN MILLER, AND DONALD TRUMP, ARE RUNNING AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT OF WASHINGTON D.C., AND AMERICA

WILL NOT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING WE RECOGNIZE. RECOGNIZE. With Verizon Business Unlimited, With Verizon Business Unlimited, With Verizon Business Unlimited, >> GUYS, I LOVE THE DISAGREEMENTS. I RESPECT YOU BOTH ABOUT, IT I CAN SEE FRANK STILL NODDING. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU BOTH ARE FRIENDS OF THE SHOW, SO YOU'RE WELCOME HERE ALL THE TIME. AND I HAVE TO GIVE IT TO RICK ON ONE THING, A GOOD ST. AUGUSTINE REFERENCE ON SUNDAY MORNING. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. FRANK, STAY WARM. I THINK I'M GONNA SEE ONE PERSON IN A FEW WEEKS RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK. SO I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH. THANK YOU. FRANKLIN'S IS A REPUBLICAN POLLSTER AND STRATEGIST AND HE'S THE AUTHOR OF WORDS THAT WORK. RICK WILSON IS A FORMER GOP STRATEGIST, COFOUNDER OF THE