Select text to annotate, Click play in YouTube to begin
00:00:00
piece there go find SW and get this over with it's time to do it now then we'll see how Brave arest follow straal or nler has to die
00:00:12
before the election they need to get possess just not putting up our source told us that this was not a one-off conversation nor was it ingest our source told us Stone was talking
00:00:25
about taking specific actions on these plans quote Roger spent election day and the months prior calling for acts of violence it was definitely concerning that he was constantly planning violence
00:00:38
with an NYPD officer and other militia groups in addition to his social media post Stone denied ever making these comments in a statement to mediaite prior to our publishing the story he
00:00:50
told us quote total nonsense I've never said anything of the kind more AI manipulation you asked me to respond to audios that you don't let me hear and you don't identify a source for absurd
00:01:04
however his associat Sal Greco did not deny the comments telling us quote I don't think your reader is interested in ancient political thought yep Roger Stone once again showing who he is a
00:01:17
malevolent actor in our nation's politics got a pardon from Donald Trump well guess what he's not going to get pardoned out of this one that him actually talking to former New York Police Department's Detective Sal Greco
00:01:31
about assassinating members of Congress just weeks before the 2020 election we're going to probably talk a lot more about that with our guest this week but this is who Roger Stone is if you
00:01:43
forgotten I I always think of this clip of Roger Stone sitting in a deposition for a lawsuit against him look carefully at this person this is the person who's saying it's all made up okay I'm asking
00:01:55
him I have no obligation to do that and I'm not going to do it sir certified yes please do you can ask your individual questions like you did yesterday well take take an opportunity Mr Stone we have time to review I'm I'm not going to
00:02:09
read your biography I'm not going to read your biograph I'm not going to read your biography and all of your asinine claims because you're an egomaniac I'm just not going to do that all right if you have a specific question we'll go to
00:02:21
the court about it I agree let's go to the court about I want to do that your reputation here is welln well known stop I'm asking you you can take your time go
00:02:33
through a paragraph by CRA paragra tell me if anything's inaccurate I'm not going to do that we went through this yesterday we didn't go I didn't ask it that he likes to hear his biography makes him feel
00:02:44
important okay certify yes please do I'd like to speak to the judge myself about this better do it quick before you're disbarred stop stop Mr CL no further questions I this deposition is concluded
00:02:58
for now subject to my going back and moving the court to produce all the documents that we requested subject to your still being admitted to the bar please note that for the record yeah I mean
00:03:10
yikes the fury the anger the hatred it's almost very very uncomfortable to watch that you know it made me think of another deposition case that was UN you know another deposition that was really uncomfortable to watch uh and that of
00:03:25
course is a case as relevant as we speak and that is Donald Trump here's just a short clip of Donald Trump if You' forgotten it and this has gone back a while because it's actually the egene Carol Case that's in the court this week
00:03:37
for the the payment the penalty phase here's Donald Trump himself in a deposition just like we just saw from Roger Stone read the next go ahead that she's not my type yeah because it's not politically correct to say it and I know
00:03:51
that but I'll say it anyway she's accusing me of rape a woman that I have no idea who she is it came out of the blue she's ACC accusing me of rape of raping
00:04:02
her the worst thing you can do the worst charge and and you know it's you know it's not true too you're a political operative also you're dis you're a disgrace but she's accusing me and so
00:04:16
are you of rape and it never took place and I will tell you I made that statement and I said well it's Politically Incorrect she's not my type and that's 100% true she's not my yeah
00:04:30
he doesn't like being questioned does he he doesn't like being told that he's wrong at all well once again we got the perfect guest to discuss this right uh the EEG Carol Case Of course in court
00:04:41
right now but I got a guy who's actually faced Donald Trump faced him down weathered the storm and won their case if you remember the Trump University case there's a great new book about it so let's just get on the
00:04:56
[Applause] show [Applause] oh man welcome welcome welcome it is a great to be back here in the studio with you man last week's show I don't know
00:05:12
what happened Matt Matt's figured it out finally I think uh we had 550,000 views in or more it's still going God I love you guys thank you mest mighty thank you onto Moxy subscribers you just it warms
00:05:25
my cold dark heart to see all of you guys making comments and saying hi and I really do look even the people who hate me I love you guys the most so it's great to have you here I can't tell you well the first votes are in in Iowa
00:05:37
we've actually started the presidential campaign the the election season is here there's no way to deny it anymore we've been saying it's coming it's coming well gosh darn it's here Iowa was this week next week is New Hampshire uh it's crazy
00:05:48
um they wasted I think thec wasted $50 million his own money uh to come in distant fourth that's awesome uh you know whatever uh Congress continues to waste time and and and once again is going to the brink of a government
00:06:02
shutdown because they refused to make deals once again you can't trust the House GOP leadership to to stick to a deal uh a lot of the drama know so it's it's an interesting time though between these two these primary dates we're sort
00:06:15
of Shifting back to the courts again right the a whole lot of court stuff came out this week uh the drama uh you know Donald Trump left Iowa and flew straight to New York for the penalty phase of his defamation case for from
00:06:26
EEG Carol as we record the show we're recording on Wednesday people always ask me as we record on Wednesday he is literally in court right now um this seemed like the perfect time to get a guest who's actually beating Trump in court uh has a new book laying out how
00:06:40
to do it so I'm thrilled to have former prosecute trist Tristan Snell join the show man Tristan been dying to get you on the show for a while I'm thrilled to have you brother thanks man really appreciate it and really glad to be here Tristan is a
00:06:52
lawyer legal commentator served as Assistant Attorney General for the New York state where he led the investigation prosecution of the Trump University case and has a new book coming out this month right here on the stage uh that's called taking down Trump
00:07:04
you can see right here so and I've already read most of it and I loved it and and what I found you know I expected a how-to book trist but what I found was a fascinating Deep dive into not just the Trump University case but these
00:07:17
other cases you bring up EEG Carol it's been quite a TR it's been quite a week for that right he uh you mentioned that case um how bad is this going for him how bad is this EEG Carol thing going for him he it's going very badly he keeps on
00:07:31
making it worse because every time he opens his mouth he defames her again right uh and and that is all going to get factored into determinations around what uh he could actually face in terms
00:07:45
of punitive damages right uh so you know literally just a fancy word for like what's the punishment beyond what are you what are you what are you uh punishing the person for above and
00:07:58
beyond what will compensate fairly the the person who was hurt right uh it's really about making an example out of the person we just saw this in the case against Rudy Giuliani yeah uh where
00:08:11
there was a certain amount of Damages that was considered to be the pro appropriate compensation for Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss for being defamed by Rudy Giuliani uh but the jury then turned around and added an additional
00:08:24
much larger amount imp punitive damages and one of the big factors there is does the defendant actually does it look like they're they have any remorse at all right do they continue to engage in the
00:08:38
bad thing even after this even after uh they're getting rung up for liability uh that is what I think we're going to see in the Carol case I think you're going to see a very large punitive damage as award because he won't shut up right he
00:08:52
cannot figure out how to stop and every time he opens his mouth he's going to owe her even more money money and then he may try to see if he can get it knocked down on appe peel get that number crunched back down again uh
00:09:06
courts will shave some money off of uh an award like that at on the appeal uh but it's not it's not going to be everything it's not going to be like if this jury turns around and gives Carol
00:09:18
$60 million $80 million $100 million which it might right you know is is an appet Court going to turn around and then crunch that all the way back down like a million bucks no probably not
00:09:31
like usually in that situ they might Lop off half of it so that she only ends up at 40 or 50 but it's going to be but they're not going to take aund million reward and say that Trump only has to pay $100,000 that's not going to happen
00:09:44
he's not GNA get crunched down that much uh so I think he's in real trouble here he is really really really dug a deep hole for himself and he digs it deeper every day and and you you talk about in the book quite bit you talk about um so
00:09:58
what you know understand the the book is is you kind of lead the path and what I enjoyed about it is it so folks understand the book's framed as the 12 steps to be Trump but what I found fascinating as I read it is you lead us
00:10:10
through the path you mentioned EEG car you mention your own so how did you get involved and for those who haven't read the book yet and should walk me through what led to this and your path on this journey of dealing with
00:10:22
Trump yeah so my path was you know it wasn't that I was running around being like I'm going to go get Donald Trump or I'm gonna get some you know somebody who's right of Center no it was
00:10:36
that I showed up at the New York AG's office as a newly minted Assistant Attorney General in the consumer frauds and Protection Bureau and on my second day there my bureau chief walked into my
00:10:49
office and I I talk about this I think in the introduction to the book and she walks in and she hands me uh this case and and a file for it and said like well we we've actually been investigating
00:11:01
Trump University um you know I think my first reaction was probably to stifle a chuckle because I was like I can't believe that he actually had a university uh but then the next thing
00:11:13
she said was very key to and it's very key for everybody to remember with all of this and because I really didn't think this is true for pretty much any one of these cases I guarantee it with with any of these prosecutor offices the first thing that is going to happen is
00:11:26
you're going to say well we think there could be something here but we have to find out right you don't start off by saying we're going to get him and we're going to find something to fill in the gap between what we have and what we
00:11:38
need to get to to nail and no you start off by saying could be something here could be a nothing burger right our first job is to actually go figure out what the heck happened and let that dictate it I was literally told there
00:11:51
may not be anything here we're not really sure if this case has legs right go figure out if this case has legs my first job job was to go call up a bunch of New York consumers uh that had
00:12:04
attended Trump University not the ones that had done complaints to our office or to other offices uh but just we we what we one of the few things that we did have from Trump because they stonewalled us so much was a was a big stack of all the enrollment forms so we
00:12:17
had the name and people had filled these out in long hand so we had the name and the contact info for all these different people so I just started calling them up and and that was how the case began in the fall of 2011 my involvement with
00:12:31
it uh and it was literally at at the beginning was did something really go wrong here or not yeah and that was and that's where it began and you got some blowback of su start calling didn't you
00:12:43
you heard some stuff right away didn't you the the the the the outpouring I got was just crazy I mean people cried people ranted you know I I would say that most of my calls went about an hour
00:12:57
each when I actually did find finally get the person on the phone um you know there's definitely a lot of calling and a lot of leaving messages and a lot of whatever and then calling back and so forth and so on ultimately did a 100
00:13:09
interviews and it was just insane and I didn't have to ask a lot of questions I just had to say what happened and people would just pour would just would just pour out all of
00:13:21
this information and then all I had to do was basically follow up with I needed to listen yeah take good notes and then follow up with not like how did they really screw you it wasn't like I was asking leading questions like you do on
00:13:34
a cross examination I was asking questions like can you clarify that date for me one more time what was that person's name so that you know it was very much just them going and and and
00:13:46
and pouring themselves out and isn't that a story with Trump I mean this guy has burned so many people over the years I mean we talked about e Carol um and and I saw there was a viral video that went a video tweet that went out it's an
00:13:59
older one that came went viral again this week talking about a guy if you saw it there's a guy talking to the camera about how a friend of his was a contractor took a gig with Trump you saw that one right and the for those who haven't read it yet the punchline is
00:14:12
this guy got half of what he was owed paid off his subcontractors paid off his family's bills and took his own life you know a abolutely it killed his business killed hiss killed his business and we hear that story over and over and you
00:14:25
talk about in the second phase of your book about the investigation and one of the things that really struck me is you said consistently in several chapters the contractor is the key because he outsources everything but he screwed so
00:14:37
many contractors right and so how did that play into your inves and how does that play into the things we're seeing now like like we're seeing that with marago right the marago documents cases that is really a threat I thought that goes all the way back to Trump University and and well all the way back
00:14:51
to the 70s to now right and he screws contractors and that was that was an opening for you with your investigation correct that was broke the whole thing open wow and and that's the whole you know that's kind of right in the middle
00:15:03
of the book it's it's rule five is about going so go after these former vendors and business partners because they can be potential allies and they can break open your case right so that's literally what happened in our case so we had all
00:15:16
of this consumer uh material from the you know from the victims um which we then worked up into sworn affidavits a lot of these people were brave enough to say not only am I talking to you but I will yes I will do a sign swarm
00:15:30
affidavit under penalty of perjury I will testify if I have to uh etc etc a lot of these people were like look I'm I am scared but we've got to do something that was the refrain I heard from a lot
00:15:43
of people yeah and mind you one thing that's important before we go on is to note these were his super fans right that's why they did it right like random folks that and that might have been you
00:15:56
know Trump Skeptics and mind you also this was all way back and like Trump university did most of its damage between 2007 and 2010 so it's well before even the bir or crap oh yeah uh
00:16:08
Trump was not that political back then he was you know he was on TV every week on The Apprentice uh you know he was in the he was in the paids and stuff a lot um he was on TV a good bit but he wasn't
00:16:22
really regarded as being a political figure at all or very little at that at that point in his life um and but he was the he was literally taking but these were not people that were like kind of met on Trump or saw him as a as a
00:16:35
buffoon or Carnival Barker or whatever these were the people who loved him these were that's who he was targeting and that's who showed up and that's who he ripped off and I still find a lot of parallels to this day with what he did
00:16:49
in Trump University is what he's doing at scale with Maga yeah uh if you know anybody who's a real Maga die hard they they've been right they have been tricked into
00:17:00
thinking that this deeply selfish human being cares about them and cares about America when none of that is true he only cares about himself so I can look at some of these Maga folks and say look you can have your right-wing views I may
00:17:14
disagree with them you can dis we can disagree on policies we can disagree on worldview lots of things but the kicker is that where I will constantly Go is is that you may have those beliefs but I
00:17:27
don't think Trump does and he definitely doesn't believe in you he doesn't have your back he's there to pick your pocket that's what he's there for he's he's just a liar and a sociopath um even if you want to continue holding those
00:17:38
beliefs go ahead but he is not your Champion you think he is but he's tricked you and I think that's the thing that people need to remember and then that it does extend to a lot of these vendors and he's been doing this for decades to people he did it back when he
00:17:52
owned his casinos in in in Atlantic City so rule five of the book get gets into all this we had all this victim uh material but we needed to corroborate it
00:18:05
the victims were saying one thing but then we thought it was too easy for the Trump people to say well that's not what any of the instructors said at these seminars right because what you had was a seminar it was often held in like a hotel Ballroom it was structured kind of
00:18:17
like a class but what it really was was like a motivational speaker wealth creation seminar right just wrapped in Trump branding right and the you know all the the victims were saying well I was told this I was told this I was told
00:18:30
this these things were all turned out to be lies then we needed to corroborate that there had been transcripts recorded of all of these sessions uh there were there were tapes
00:18:44
that then were transcribed they were doing it to maximize sales so if they had a seminar that had a really good upsell rate they would then share it within the company to say like wow you
00:18:56
got a huge conversion rate on this one everybody take a look see what he was doing right uh probably a pretty standard practice for this kind of stuff yeah uh at any rate we had tried to get more of these transcripts from Trump and
00:19:09
his lawyers and they gave us five there had been hundreds of these seminars held over this three-year period and a bit beyond that so we knew there were hundreds of transcripts lurking around somewhere we just didn't know where to
00:19:22
get them yeah and finally I had figured out which vendor it was that had done the transcribing and we couldn't find them at first took forever to track them down I finally was able to uh and then I
00:19:36
had also remembered that I had seen this guy's name in uh emails that I looked at where it turns out that he himself and I'm not going to give away his name yeah I I have a fake name for him in the book
00:19:49
uh he and his he and his little company had been screwed out of about $14,000 uh As Trump University was shutting down they just didn't pay any of their vendors there you go so rather
00:20:02
than even though Trump organization owned even though Trump and the Trump organization owned and and and operated Trump University uh as a subsidiary they refused to make good on the bills that
00:20:16
were ow that were due and owing when Trump University was shut down they they shut it down because they were getting hit up by so many AG's offices and consumer complaints that they decided to shut it down rather then continue it
00:20:28
that was in roughly the summer of 2010 uh so long story short I finally get this guy on the phone and I go through the whole sort of scene in the book uh but the long story short is he was not
00:20:41
going to help me uh this guy had been a friend of one of the Trump University uh Executives right and I don't think that he was super inclined to help me and he was not in New York state so it was going to probably be a whole lot of
00:20:55
difficulty to enforce the subpoena against him we probably could have done it but it would have been a whole thing and it would have taken forever but then I was able to mention the the fact that he had gotten screwed
00:21:08
over himself right and it was like it was like I'd flipped the switch all of a sudden he's like you know what no they never did pay me it was actually one of the factors and he had had to shut down his business in part because of that
00:21:19
unpaid Trump invoice so uh he said you know what I have about 150 transcript sitting here on my on my on my hard drive still where do I send them wow and
00:21:34
that broke open the whole case it went from five transcripts to over 150 and it was just a treasure Trove of material it confirmed and corroborated everything that our victims were saying yeah we had
00:21:46
proof from the Trump people that this is in fact what their instructors had said all of the lies that they were doing to get people to to put up more money um it was all it was all correct all everything the consumers were saying was
00:21:59
true and it just shows that really broke open the whole case yeah so years of burning people as coming back to time and you and you talked about rule two um how he has bought prosecutors off and
00:22:11
and and and you know I found a fasinating how you laid out just how how long that the Trump organization been investigated for faking their numbers in their real estate the you mentioned at length of the real estate inflation that that ianka was involved in it and they
00:22:24
they got that they kept buying off New York prosecutors I was shocked to see Greg Abbott's name and then Pam Bondi I mean tell us a little bit about how he always avoided these prosecutions through sprinkling his money
00:22:36
around so you know the the pattern for Trump for a long long time was that he was able to avoid a lot of accountability through I I I honestly think he he's gotten worse at this as
00:22:48
he's gotten older yeah you say that in the book's he's not as quick as he used to be he's not as quick as he used to be with this but also there's now so much and now you have this this group group of prosecutors who are not going to get
00:23:00
co-opted they're not going they're they're not going to be compromised uh but he was able to get away with it for a long time by proactively uh going after these folks and donating either to their campaigns
00:23:13
or the promise of future campaign donations or uh donations to their favorite charity uh and he was able to keep from Ever from an investigation ever being opened to begin with almost
00:23:26
inoc himself right yeah and that is how the truly uh elusive targets manage to float Above the Law is they rig the system so that it works in their favor
00:23:38
and they never never even get an investigation open to begin with or if one is open they can get it they can get it shut down so with a bunch of these instances you had very suspiciously
00:23:50
timed donations or promises thereof to these various prosecutors uh and the matter right around the same time disappeared so you know do the math yeah
00:24:03
it doesn't have to be it's a great place to take a pause for our sponsor got real paper sponsoring our show this week we love that sponsor let's check out what they have to offer trees are renewable resource but you know not an unlimited resource I mean honestly trees don't
00:24:15
actually grow on trees right so everyday companies are clear cutting Forest just to produce toilet paper trees and wood are amazing resources but doesn't make sense to use them for a product we only
00:24:27
use one and flush away you know those trees deserve better that's why real paper uses bamboo to make the sustainable toilet paper not only does bamboo grow incredibly fast you know because it's a grass it can be cut
00:24:40
harvested over and over again just like the grass in your lawn so and you use real it doesn't feel like you're sacrificing trees or you know look I'm a tree hugger I want I admit it freely if you guys follow me you know I hike every
00:24:52
day I'm out in the woods and to know we're cutting down these beautiful trees for toilet paper it just doesn't makes sense so real in a lot of ways feels like an upgrade to me for my heart it's always shipped free to my door it's
00:25:04
plastic free shipping packaging it can it can schedule it I can schedule it right on my right on the line subscription goes exactly where I need it when I need it I never have to worry about forgetting to buy anything at the store real is partner with one tree
00:25:16
planted so with every box of real that you buy they're funding like reforestation efforts and if you've ever hiked in one of those places where they're putting new trees in it's beautiful to see and it needs money so unlike other t that cuts down trees real
00:25:29
is actively helping organizations to replant our forest and to grow our trees back so look real paper is available in Easy hasslefree subscriptions for an online purchase or a one-time purchase
00:25:41
on their website all orders are completely delivered your doorstep with free shipping 100% recyclable plasticfree packaging so if you head to real paper I want you go to realp paper.com Fred you sign up for
00:25:55
subcription using my code Fred you're going to get 30% off your first order and free shipping so that's real paper re e l p
00:26:07
a.com Fred or inro promo code Fred to get that 30% off your first order and free shipping so let's make a change for good this year right switch to real paper real is paper for the planet and we're thrilled to have him a sponsor for
00:26:20
this show thanks so much for the real Pap for sponsor show is you know it's just fascinating to me and kind of going back to something that I opened the show you know I if you saw I opened the show with a clip from the of Roger Stone uh
00:26:31
you know talking about having Eric swell and Jerry Nadler executed right media I got that clip it's sort of shocking to hear it um but there's reports now we're hearing that this week that there's an investigation being open how dang I mean
00:26:44
obviously he's just saying oh they're just words how dangerous is this really for Roger Stone since I I ran that clip at the start of the show yeah so the problem for stone is that yes there is
00:26:55
just words yeah and yes and but then there is the law on the books regarding conspiracy and this has been very fleshed out over decades centuries really of case law uh to distinguish
00:27:08
mere speech or mere words from actual conspiracy so a couple of things to just sort of run through one is that the the object of the conspiracy does not need to succeed or even be fully attempted in
00:27:21
order for conspiracy to uh exist okay uh so it doesn't matter that no one actually a bullet or tried to place a bomb um they might not have ever gotten that far uh but it doesn't matter that
00:27:35
that is not a deal breaker for finding conspiracy what if he was just having that conversation and nothing ever came of it and he was just running at the mouth then that probably isn't conspiracy so those are kind of your
00:27:48
extremes there yeah in the middle which is where Stone might have stumbled or or bumbled himself into uh and I actually I shouldn't even use those phrases I mean this is really dark and serious problem
00:27:59
very malor yeah and and deserves some very serious investigation here even if it turns out that he didn't break any laws we need to know yeah you know you don't just get to say that he shouldn't
00:28:12
be investigated because he's a political figure it doesn't work that way that's what he's going to probably try to argue at some point is that because of his close association with Trump that and Trump running for office that thereby Stone should not be investigated this
00:28:26
this is partisan witch hun blah blah here's what the law actually is rather than the garbage that we're going to hear from him and his people probably yeah the law requires an overt Act is
00:28:37
the exact phrase uh so and that can be anything it's basically something other than the talking some other steps action needs to be taken that action could be as simple as did they did did one of
00:28:53
them and by the way can be of anybody who then was Lo in on the s Greco so so so s Greco we know about the two of them about greo and stone right there could
00:29:03
have been others if any member of that conspiracy went and did something like did they go look up what sww Well's schedule was or what nadler's schedule
00:29:15
was did they go look into the feasibility of mailing of an explosive device yeah did they try to get somebody's address like right their home address whatever any that they did to
00:29:28
then like well let's see we have our you know to-do list of like things we need to do to carry out this assassination did they actually get going on the to-do list I mean I know I'm kind of making light of it but it's it that is really
00:29:40
kind of what it is it's okay if you're going to be taking out these actions in order to pull off some crime did they actually you know if it's that the conspiracy is to rob a bank did they go
00:29:52
and buy ski masks right that's enough wow that's an over Act bought the damn ski masks did they go case the bank and walk around the block and figure out where are we going to put the getaway
00:30:03
car whatever any of that planning is an overact as far as criminal law is concerned so they might not have gotten very far down the road and I hope they didn't because this is absolutely
00:30:16
terrifying to think about yeah but if if they can actually prove that there was anything else done whether it was by Stone or Greco or by anybody else that they sort of read into the conspiracy then ston in deep trouble wow this is
00:30:29
not a joke like Federal conspiracy law is like it's not a joke and the penalties are very severe um and and it would be ramped up rationed up higher because it's public officials yeah it
00:30:41
would be this would be a severe severe thing for him to have done if in fact he did it w it's just it just makes and he's a very bad person and and and going to those conspiracies it does lead us back to the Trump case right the Georgia
00:30:52
RICO case um a lot of those actors are making points that well nothing you know we didn't stop the election but you kind of touched on it right here in this conversation with their RICO law is the same thing right they didn't have to actually accomplish thing and they clearly they did overt things they did
00:31:05
go into the county and grab look at the machines right so there were we've seen the over Act Right am I accurate to assess it that way yes yeah the fake elector scheme was an overt act yeah uh
00:31:17
definitely the Coffee County uh vote machine thing that was an over act the call to raffensberger I would argue was an over act because even though those were words it was an action because it
00:31:30
was it was words pressuring a public official to break his oath that's what that was and the other calls that he and other people placed to other election officials in Georgia and other states
00:31:43
where they were trying to uh get them to kind of fudge the numbers uh you know so he can say those were just words but it doesn't work that way sometimes the the
00:31:55
Kingpin isn't the kingpin's rarely the person who pulls the trigger right the kingpin's rarely the person who who who uh flips flips the switch to detonate the bomb right but so often the the
00:32:09
crime that the big guy is going to commit is going to be words but it's words that are themselves in action and that's what they're going to be really hunting for with Donald Trump yeah and that I think they're gonna have yeah I
00:32:20
mean it seems like fonny Wills has it now I mean if you notice the I think there was a filing this week some sidebar about her relation is one of the special prosecutor I mean it it does feel like spaghetti being thrown against a wall hoping something sticks because
00:32:32
the desper the desperation is real right yeah I mean that that's that gets into rule 11 from the book which is about Trump lashing out at opponents or the or the prosecutors the lawyers the judges uh and that you really just have to
00:32:44
ignore all of that you know the the thing I keep the the thing I've been saying lately is that at the end of the day you really just got to be a bulldozer and a bulldozer doesn't care if it's being yelled at a bulldozer bulldozer doesn't care if you tell it you're going to sue it a bulldo
00:32:57
bulldozer doesn't care if you're threatening it or its family like you know it doesn't care you just you just keep going you you need to keep your head down and just push yeah because because once in my view once he actually
00:33:11
does engage in that kind of attacking and I do believe that he probably had something to do with this fonny Willis thing that has his fingerprints all over it in my view Roger too maybe maybe and
00:33:23
then you know I say in the book it's ignore it it means you're on the right track it means that you actually got him like you scored points you scored hit points against him he's lashing back out
00:33:35
because you hit him so you actually did hit the target that's how you know because if he wasn't attacking you he he's not gonna go attack you if you didn't actually if you didn't actually score hit points on him right
00:33:48
right yeah and we see that in the election right I he never criticize VC ramaswami until the night before the Iowa primary caucus I mean you he was just he wasn't he wasn't a little bit of data that might actually make a late run
00:34:01
especially with the way the caucus system and remember Elon was loving on him I I think I think that's what triggered him I think Elon love onc is what triggered him to be honest with you that that you know it could have had something to do there and of course we all we all know I or I think most
00:34:14
political junkies know the whole system where the second the the the the votes of people that are out of the running then get reallocated so it's possible to be sort of the second choice or third
00:34:26
Cho person and make a surge because the low the people lower down on the on the list get freed up to choose a second choice candidate or third choice candidate that's way that's the way caucus system works yeah so you actually
00:34:41
can get somebody seemingly low in the polls make a surge and come up with a big surprise on uh on caucus night so they must have had some feeling that maybe the had that possibility there and
00:34:54
they just wanted to like squash it yeah and you know you make a pretty strong case in the book as well of how much public pressure matters when it comes to taking on powerful people how much public pressure matter not taking on Trump and how much matters as we go into
00:35:06
these things um and you you made a really good point about the how that with the the January 6 case with the pressure on Garland you and you obviously a little bit of speculation we're speculating no suw us you know that that the janary 6 committee really
00:35:18
did put pressure on Garland to appoint Jack Smith I mean and then we're seeing that right there there's a lot of pressure now to hold Trump accountable and his and his his others um where do you think that's going I mean we we last week or a couple weeks ago we had mar
00:35:31
Mario nicas who was one of the um attorneys for the the the folks in Colorado I mean we're seeing a lot of these things happen the pressure is ramping up but political pressure matters right I think it does I think it matters
00:35:43
a lot I think it's been an under uh an under regarded uh an underappreciated element for all of this you know I I design taking down Trump also as a bit of a citizen's guide so that we all can
00:35:58
understand the role that we have to play in all of this uh whether that's on social media or writing letters or organizing or what have you uh I do think it matters a lot I think it
00:36:10
mattered with j6 and I think it mattered with the Alvin brag yeah uh Manhattan DA's office uh you know investigation and ultimately indictment of trump uh where that what looked like it was dead
00:36:24
there was a big Firestorm of criticism and then a year later the hush money matter is back and suddenly Bragg becomes the first prosecutor to do a criminal
00:36:36
indictment of trump he actually beats out all of the other matters that we were looking at so uh I don't think that that would have been as likely to happen and maybe not likely at all had it not
00:36:47
been for the ground swell of public opinion uh which was very very vocal uh urging brag to reconsider and saying that people felt that he made a mistake
00:37:01
uh and so I and the way I like to think of it is this it's you know there's the facts in the law there's the merits of the case okay and in no way shape or form by saying you can manufacture a
00:37:13
case just based purely on what public opinion wants that's not how that's not how these things are supposed to work and I don't think in any way it's how any of these current matters are working yeah however just having the merits is
00:37:24
not a uh is not fly sufficient to actually see something get brought there's a courage factor that is really really critical and so the first third of the book is really about that with sort of focusing on the leadership
00:37:38
element of it um including the part about brag and about the j6 committee and my take is that if you don't have that you got to have the merits there's got to be evidence and then you've got to have courage and if you don't have both of
00:37:51
those things it's not going to move forward and a lot of the reason why Trump got away with it for so many years was because of what I would sort of think of as like political timidity yeah it's fear yeah it's fear it was fear of
00:38:03
going after him it was sort of a hesitation like let's not poke the bear he'll Counterattack he can summon publicity at the drop of a hat well this blinding light on us will be put under a microscope it's not worth it especially
00:38:17
when on the one side is fear and on the other side is it looks like potentially a campaign donation might be available for you if you just play ball with him and I think that uh We've now passed the
00:38:30
Tipping Point I think the Trump University case is what did it obviously I'm biased but I really think that was true yeah I think the New York AG's office built this Playbook they did it with Trump you then the Trump Foundation case yeah uh a couple years later and
00:38:43
now you see it again with the Trump organization civil fraud case yeah this Playbook and the just the O the idea that there's this willingness to go after him now like prosecutors are not afraid of him anymore Y and neither are
00:38:55
litigants you you Carol going in there and she's got a great legal team led by Robbie Kaplan and then you've got uh and then you and then Michael Cohen has has has actually successfully won a couple of cases
00:39:07
against Trump now including to get a bunch of unpaid fees and including Trump managing to dismiss Trump's uh you know defamation case against against Cohen
00:39:19
people are not afraid of him because they and they now see that like look if you just keep pushing you can actually beat him yeah yeah I think really key for people to see and when you're talking about an elected prosecutor or
00:39:31
even an appointed one I do think the public opinion role is massive and it's something that we should all bear in mind we need to be a constituency for justice yeah at all times you have to we
00:39:43
have to be actively holding the prosecutors themselves accountable so that they hold the bad guys accountable oh I like that that's that's brilliant and and we're seeing it and he is a wounded he's a wounded now he is taking
00:39:56
hit takes and as You' said throughout it he he is not who he he's not as he's lost Edge he's not there's no way to look at him and real and his behavior he's and he's and he's also Reeling I mean there's a lot of cases you know my
00:40:10
friend Dennis afut and Lawrence's tribe uh just wrote a piece on slate this week talk about how judge alen Canon is quietly sabotaging the docman case there's just a lot going on right you know and and and and he appointed aen Canon it kind of goes back there's a lot
00:40:22
of play there right that she was appointed you know after the election for for God's sake or she was you know put up um I think you're seeing it I mean is she going to succeed do you think in delaying that case the election or um do you think ja it almost feel
00:40:35
like like they mentioned they think Jack Smith may be playing a long game to let her be because she's trying to be subtle I think what what's what's your take on that I think that's the last question I'll bug you with yeah I mean I think the kicker there is I do think that she
00:40:48
is having some success in that yeah part of the key here is that we have to work backwards from from how all this could go because we know that we we I think there's a good reason to think that doj is going to be very wary to push these
00:41:01
cases forward in September and October yeah I worry deeply that they're going to have that sort of blackout period before the election where they're just not going to want to do this they haven't said it yet that it will apply to these cases that have already been
00:41:13
filed but I'm worried that it could yeah uh and we need to be worried about that so the way to think of this is you probably want to see Trump get sentenced before Labor Day yeah okay if you uh
00:41:26
ideally if the juries are going to convict you want that you like those of us that want to see this happen I think you want to see it happen by then I think that the j6 DC case is on track
00:41:38
and I think that that one I think that one can generate convictions by early May and I think we could see sentencing by like August wow um I actually think we could get there in time wow I don't know if we're going to get there in time
00:41:49
on the Florida case now um now that doesn't mean that it's not going to happen but it may mean that we don't get where we ideally would want to get but but I will say we could get a conviction before Labor Day on that one but then
00:42:02
and then it may be that he gets sentenced after November um I don't think that will have as much of an impact politically I think when it really sinks home for people that a jury can that a you saw these very credible
00:42:15
Witnesses point the finger at him including his inner circle people like Mike Pence Mark Meadows B that a jury actually convicts him after a fair trial and then C that there's actually a
00:42:27
sentence levied and that he actually truly is going to prison I think once that hits home for people I think that there's going to be even some DieHard Republicans and even some here to for very DieHard Maga people that are
00:42:40
they're not maybe the core core base but I think there's a sliver of people there that are gonna that are going to be like yeah I think that's where I get off this bus yeah and then that and poll say that polls say that even even so even the
00:42:52
entry polls that NBC was touting poll yesterday saying how 65% of the people who went in Republicans said they didn't care but 31% did you know and that's a big number that's enough we say that all
00:43:04
time and that's enough because and independents are very much the% they're like 100% now yeah right so I agree and you can also tell when you get it ped on whether or not he's immune right the
00:43:17
poll numbers there tend to show that there's like there's a pretty solid like two-thirds majority of the country that is not yet convinced he's guilty but that does believe that a he should be tried and B if he's
00:43:29
convicted he should not be anywhere near public office yeah so that gives me hope I hope yeah he doesn't have the I don't believe that he does I don't believe that he does but Canon making this a
00:43:42
little bit more difficult because as a case if I got to pick which case I wanted to go try just in a vacuum yeah I would probably pick the mor I think it's the most slam dunk of the cases in terms of like the evidence
00:43:56
fits the crime like a glove like it's just perfect yeah so but but this has created a major problem hopefully they figure it out or that he is you know Jacks is letting her lead herself into a point where she'll
00:44:09
be dismissed from the case so well Tristan man I could go we could talk for an hour here or two hours I I probably have five more questions I'd love to ask but I really appreciate your time man what a great conversation love the book and I don't say that very often can tell
00:44:21
people where to find the book we'll put it up on screen uh tell us about where they can find you but especially the book and when does it come out officially January 30th I believe it's January 30th is the release date so we're well into the pre-order phase now
00:44:34
uh I you know I think there's going to be a second printing uh so if you want a hard copy you probably want to reserve it now to make sure you get it right when the book drops uh and then of course you can get it as an ebook uh and
00:44:46
then it'll hit your devices on the 30th uh but you go to taking down trump.com uh and then you can choose which bookstore you want to get it from uh and there's also a deal there for getting uh a dis discounted signed
00:44:59
copies uh so that's fun as well and you can find me all over social media at Tristan Snell and uh you know I'm going to be doing a bunch of other MSNBC and CNN and things like that so uh you know
00:45:12
I'll be you'll be able to see me there as well we got you first the mest mighty will love that you know I Tell You Folks and and my my my longtime viewers know I I don't plug books I don't love and I haven't read
00:45:23
and I love this book I taking with me I'm leaving here for Chicago now and I'm going to take that with me it was just really great stuff I mean and it does paint a very effective picture of who Trump is and and how we can beat him legally which is probably be one of the
00:45:35
best ways man I I just can't thank you enough for joining us so early in the process and and being part of your uh your your new success their book I hope sure's gonna be a bestseller thank you sir really appreciate it and uh happy to help anytime great well good talking to
00:45:48
you good luck ma'am you too take care yep man what a great conversation right I mean Tristan's brilliant uh I've I've been fortunate to be connected with him on social media for quite a time it's first time we had a chance to talk I I don't kid when I say this I really do
00:46:01
enjoy the book um I'm reading it cover to cover that it is it is a fascinating way and remind me things I'd forgotten about the Trump legal uh uh uh Arc if you will uh so definitely worth doing
00:46:13
well it's you know we're going to see a it's goingon to be interesting week ahead of us folks before you see me next time uh you know the we've got the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday that'll probably further shake out the Republican uh competition uh we've got
00:46:25
uh the Govern shutdown threat we're going to see a lot this week you know you just you're seeing it folks you're seeing it all the time how we cannot trust Republican leadership to stick to a deal that takes care of the American people they're just not interested in
00:46:38
governing they're just not so we're gon to have to fight now look things are better okay the the numbers are really looking good for Mr Biden right now President Biden's President Biden's the polls are starting to show him winning all the time things are going our way
00:46:51
but the work has to be done we will win you know everybody's getting excited about the the Iowa caucus results how Trump made Landslide 50,000 people all showed up to vote for him and that's no 50,000 out of 700,000
00:47:04
registered Republican voters 700,000 registered Republicans exist in Iowa only 50,000 came out for the caucus to to vote for Trump okay it's like 2.5% so
00:47:16
he is weak he's made it his thing that he's 95% of Republican party loves him he is the king and only 50% voed fors 51% so have faith doesn't mean to do the work folks we're going to have to do the work that's why you know as you know I'm
00:47:28
chairman the Forgotten Democrats um we are really ramping up now we're starting to send out emails again and and we're going to have a town hall soon I'm very proud to be part of the Forgotten Democrats what we're doing there the on the national chairman of course uh
00:47:40
because our goal again is to help those those Democratic nominees in those tough places the Democratic nominees who never even made $200,000 in the in the in the race in that District last time didn't even the Republican didn't have any competition as you've heard the number a
00:47:52
bunch of times 149 members of this Congress barely had an opponent uh that is unacceptable so it's our first year doing this it's our first cycle doing this for forgotten Democrats but I'd love to have you join it's very simple you can see on the screen forgotten
00:48:05
democrats.com or you can uh you can or you can uh you can text uh Fred to 33777 and join our email list and find out what's going on with that in the meantime uh things are getting interesting in life as you know as I as
00:48:19
as we mentioned Mike Flynn's still suing me uh they've updated their uh lawsuit guys you love hearing this one they've updated the lawsuit and dropped two of the three tweets that he accused me of defaming him in he's down to one Tweet
00:48:31
now I don't want to tell you what that is but it comes down to one tweet guess how much they're asking for they want $150 million now if you look at the show today if you look at the show today Tristan was talking about how Trump may
00:48:44
win an astounding you know EEG Carol may win an astounding h100 million but the course May reduce that that amazing1 for all the things the hundreds of comments the hundreds of attacks he made an eege
00:48:56
Carol I'm being sued by disgraced former General Mike Flynn for $150 million for one single tweet and
00:49:09
that's the magga system that's what they're doing folks they're suing people to shut them up they're suing people to make easy money thinking my insurance company's going to give them an easy money we fight back just like Tristan
00:49:22
said we we weather the storm I don't care what they throw us it's all false it's all false so you heard a great talk today about staying in the fight and how it's worth
00:49:35
it so with that as always you can find me at FP Wellman uh on I am still on X I know some people hate that but there that's where the fight is of course you can always find me on threads I'm really loving threads FP Wellman official and my Instagram's been getting a boost
00:49:47
lately FP Wellman official as you know our YouTube channel for the show is on Democracy POD at on Democracy pod on the podcast on on on YouTube on Democracy podcast on YouTube and on Democracy pod
00:50:00
on Twitter we'd love you how you follow those channels too uh you can get the show early we're going to start adding a a lot of our content that we've put on the minus touch uh that's been there for a long time it's hard to find we'll start putting all of our content up on the on Democracy podcast Channel on
00:50:12
YouTube so you can find us all there in the meantime the Fight Continues folks I hope you're weathering the cold spell that's going through our whole country I cannot wait to see you next week remember like subscribe leave a comment share with your friends say hi
00:50:26
in the meantime let's keep up the [Applause] fight
End of transcript