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okay so Victor great to have you back on the show and we're definitely and when I say definitely I'm talking about definitely in need of the Gen Z perspective right now so let's jump into
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it gen Z alone could change the tide of the 2024 election there are so many of you there's so many of you that are potential voters but my question to you is will
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they vote or will they stay home I guess the better question is will they vote for President Biden over say a potential president Donald Trump yeah so first of
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all thanks so much for having me back on Michael it's great to see you uh this morning I would say a couple of things so first of all there are a lot of polls and headlines out there right now showing that Biden is really losing the youth vote and that young people are voting or preferring Donald Trump over
00:00:53
Joe Biden that's simply just not the case and I think it's important for I think when we're all consuming the news to be aware of sort of how those polls are conducted because most of those polls that are being released are being released and they're through the method of phone calling only and if you know
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you have a someone young in your life you probably know that it's very hard to get them to pick up the phone um so to get them to pick up a phone from a random number is very challenging and very I think not representative of most of geners the Jers who I talk to are
00:01:20
generally unaware of what President Biden has accomplished and there are a lot of things that he's accomplished and we can get through them in this episode but it's been pretty remarkable I would say this president has probably been the most Pro youth president in at least my
00:01:32
lifetime probably in modern American history uh but the thing is that young people don't really know about those accomplishments they don't feel it and that's going to be I think part of the challenge for uh President Biden as he heads into reelection because unlike
00:01:44
2020 I think what's going to be really important in this election is giving young people not just something to vote against right most young people who I talk about are very against Trump they don't like any of the policies he stands for but what they care more about I
00:01:57
think this time around is Something to Believe In something to vote for and I think that's going to be the pro the challenge that President Biden his campaign is going to come up against is how do we reach young voters where they are how do we get those facts across in
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a way that's meaningful in a way that's authentic and um I think that's going to be you know over the next 10 months uh the biggest challenge when reaching gen Zer but I think if they can do that young people will overwhelmingly vote
00:02:21
for Biden just like we did in 2020 and then we turn out again in 2022 and in uh elections this um last year in 2023 Okay so which
00:02:32
policies for example yeah do gen zers not like that Trump is espousing I would say probably everyone that I can think of I mean when you
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think of just basic core values um just just his character it's not really um kind of appealing to see someone who is openly racist someone who's been found by a court to be a sexual abuser someone
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who openly spreads homophobia bigotry um you know I'm Asian-American someone I know my community felt very very betrayed when he called covid-19 the Kung flu and he kept on referring it to the China virus and really scapegoated
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um Chinese people so I think a lot of the issues that he just as a basic character really runs against a lot of the things that Jen cares about and most Americans I would say for that matter but when it comes to policy too you know you think of his immigration policies I
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don't I can't think of anyone who indorses family separation I can't think of anyone who wants our government to be taken over by these farri extremist um who don't know anything about governing and I think most of Jers just
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want someone who would represent our life and I think during his time and and we saw this in 2018 when young people really turned out for the first time in droves and and voted for a democratic Congress and and really resulted in this
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Blue Wave I think most people were just fed up with Donald Trump his character his policies but I think the top one is probably just like viscerally when you see him he just stands against everything we we care about um just as a
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kind of a moral and decent person I mean but when was the last time that you were in a truly Red State because these people these people hate immigrants
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which is funny that vivc ramaswami thought he even had a shot right I mean they hate immigrants the first thing Donald said he's going to do after of course rewriting the Constitution after
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dismantling you know our tripar system of government after he stops the uh Ukraine Russia war after he resolves Israel Hamas then he's going to do the
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greatest largest most a you know expansive migrant deportation and Roundup that this country has ever seen what's the
00:04:51
position for example on your college campus because I'm with you on that I can't understand how any genzer and there are genzer that are pro Trump how
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could any genzer especially especially female geners be interested in voting for somebody who touts as an accomplishment
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the fact that he himself is responsible for the overturning of roow versus Wade I it's it's hard to Fathom for me as well but I would say that group of Jers and when you look I think it's
00:05:30
important to understand sort of gen Z as a whole it's the most diverse generation in America racially socioeconomically just un basically every metric it's the most diverse but when you look at the people who support Trump the most they
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tend to be wider they tend to be from the south as you say they tend to be overly religious which is something that geners most geners actually um don't identify with a particular religion so I think when you look at that demographic they tend to come from places where
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Republicans have traditionally succeeded places like Florida and Texas and they've managed to sort of tap into that fear I think of a lot of JZ and that you know the the white National sphere of you know these minorities taking over and I think some of them have have
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bought into that some of them have bought into that Narrative of you know um you know black people and and these growing demographics taking over uh white people but it's very few and far between I think I don't think there are many of them and and even the people who
00:06:20
do support Trump when you look at Iowa caucus for instance Trump got 51% of the total vote but he only got 21% of the Gen Z vote which is I think telling um I think that's the lowest he's ever gotten from that demographic so I think most
00:06:32
people are sort of fed up yes there are some who believe in the ideology he espouses which to me like you said is just mindboggling on on all levels but there there there aren't many of them I think most gen zers are pragmatic most
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of us agree that we don't want abortion that something that we you know grew up with to be outlawed and banned we don't want immigration people to be separated at the border and for people to be Mass deported to other countries I think most of us agree on these very pragmatic
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issues um and just want someone who's going to take action on them I mean let's not forget about climate change as an issue as well Donald Trump is a climate change denyer plain and simple I
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mean the same way that he denied the existence of covid he denies climate change you know I was having this conversation with a friend of mine not a genzer and I said to him explain to me
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something if you don't like New York because of the extremely high taxes you could always pick yourself up like so many billionaires have and you
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know decamillionaires have and move to Florida or move to another state that has a lower tax rate yeah but you know where you can never leave you can't
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leave the Earth so why in the world would you be Pro fracking but and I'm not opposed to fracking but it has to be intelligent fracking not just a freefor
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all which is what Donald Trump want there should be no prohibitions on anything everything should be as you want to do if you want to you know pollute the air pollute the air you can't leave the planet I don't care how
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many people want to send rocket ships up into space you're not leaving this planet so why [ __ ] the planet up for the Next Generation the Gen Z generation and
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I know a lot of young people look I have a daughter you know who's part of that and the son who's part of that jenzy um you know community and they're really concerned about drinking water the air
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that we breathe the toxicity that exists in our food as a result of fertilizers I mean I can't tell you it's like oh my god you bought that it doesn't say you know non GMO on
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it sweetie they they I couldn't find the [ __ ] on GMO we throw it in the garbage it's you know because that's what it is it's garbage so you know Jen zir are smart but what we need to do is to make
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sure that we activate them yes that's the that's the concern that I have and I still even to this day cannot understand how Donald even achieved
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21% of Jen zers makes no sense to me yeah and like you I mean climate change is such an important issue but I think what's going to be most important in this election is to really just emphasize the choice that faces um young
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people you know a lot of them they might not they might not be paying attention right now they might not know of what you know President Biden has accomplished they might not even understand the threat that Donald Trump poses in this next election but at every step along the way I think we have to
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emphasize this isn't an election that's going to be a referendum it's an election that's going to be about a choice between two people who couldn't be more different from each other and and like you said the fact that we even have candidates running for office who
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deny basic facts like climate change is happening you know we're all living in this planet we're all experi ering higher temperatures we're all experiencing worsening natural disasters but somehow you have the right exploiting this issue I don't know what
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for what reason but they're exploiting this issue for politics and I think it's just really putting all of us in danger but young people like you said they're smart I think they're aware of the reality that is facing us and they aren't buying into those narratives for the most part they aren't seeing you
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know what what Republicans are espousing and believing it for the most part and so I think the challenge though is to get like you said to activate them to mobilize them to get them excited to vote to get them angry at the other side to to turn out in 2024 because that's is
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is what's going to keep the farri from ever holding office again so the what do you think Victor is the biggest issue for young voters right now are they worried about democracy because I can
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assure you my generation is very concerned about democracy versus autocracy or maybe it's gun safety my my
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real question to you using all of these various different issues what's going to get you to the polls in droves what's going to be that that issue that's going
00:11:09
to drive gen zers to the pole in massive massive number so I don't know if I can pinpoint one exact issue but I think there are a couple of issues right now that are most Salient for a lot of geners and I'm
00:11:22
talking sort of broad strokes and when you ask genz or sort of what values do you care most about whether you're Republican or whether you're ident as a Republican or whether you whether you identify as a Democrat most geners agree on these basic issues I think the first
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one is uh Reproductive Rights and we talked about this a little bit before but after row fell I can't tell you the number of people who I saw on my Instagram stories on my you know just social media networks who posted infographics about the threat and and
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and sort of our reality and how scary and dangerous that moment was and you saw that in 2022 with the midterm election the number one factor that got um young people out there to vote was abortion rights you looked at States
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like Michigan where the lines were uh out until 2 am. in the morning because young people were so scared of what would happen if a republican took over the state and so I think that's a really big issue for um young people hiding into election we're seeing the campaign
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um releasing uh ads about uh row and about you know abortion rights and they're doing um some big abortion rights events uh in the next couple of weeks um so I think that's gonna be a really important issue the second issue that is affecting basically every gen
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Zer no matter where you're coming from is gun violence um you look at what happening um in Republican states like Texas you know we there was there was just this damning report in Uvaldi but if it could happen in Uvaldi it could happen pretty much anywhere I'm from
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Illinois and there was one that happened right on Fourth of July in Highland Park so no matter where you're from this is a generation that's had to go through school lockdown drills and and that's scary and and most young people don't want that to be a reality most people
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want to just be able to go to classroom and learn and go to the places they want to go to without having to fear whether they'll be the next victims of gun violence so I think that's going to be a really important issue too and probably lastly um I I think right now uh climate
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change is is the last one at least domestically and we can get to some of the foreign policy stuff that is animating I think my generation but at least domestically I think climate change is the the last one because again all of us no matter where we're from I
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think anyone can see the the impacts of climate change on our reality right now and it's affecting jobs it's affecting life it's affecting where you're going to end up living but you know just
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staying on gun safety it is such a big issue you I remember as a kid yeah I remember the alarm would go off first of all everybody was [ __ ] psyched about it the alarm would go off that meant that you got out of class you would pray
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during the middle of an exam that the alarm would go off so you can start comparing answers to your friends as you're walking by I don't care if the teacher said there's no talking no talking it's very different today when
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that Bell goes off they're not lying ling up you know Michael's the door monitor I open the door wait for everybody I'm the last guy out great that's not what they're doing
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now now the drill is you Bolt the door with either a chair or a bookcase you block that door and you turn over the desks and you make a fort in case that
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they start shooting right that there it's not an open um target for the shooter that's that's [ __ ] up for a kid to go
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to school again we enjoyed when the fire alarm went off because nobody was that concerned you know you're gonna get out you know you're gonna be fine now when that thing
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goes off everybody's anxiety level goes from zero to a 100 in an instant because it's a reminder of what happened at
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Parkland what happened at Uvaldi what happened in Highland Park I mean you know and in so many other places it's a ugly reminder of what can
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happen on any given Tuesday of any given week in any school anywhere and that's scary [ __ ] and these children these young children should not have to go to school with this fear there's enough
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pressure on kids today this is not a pressure that they need no it's not a pressure we need and and there's also I mean talking about the things that people have had to resort to to prevent something like this
00:15:42
from happening there was this video that went viral of a teacher um they're building these like mechanisms in classroom now where where it's sort of a wall built into a wall and they pull out the wall and it becomes a little Fortress for the kids and it's a
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bulletproof wall but when there's you know a lockdown drill or when there's um a shooter event at a school they pull open the wall and then all the kids hide into there but it's something that you know teachers are being trained on how to open the wall and that's something
00:16:06
that teachers shouldn't have to go through either why are we forcing teachers why are we forcing students to live in this reality and I think it's because you have Republicans right now who just simply refuse to act I mean they have the majority in Congress they
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could act on any given day on this issue and pass meaningful Common Sense gun legislation but they refuse to do so and this is you know you can talk about the great things that are happening in Illinois or California or any other Blue State on gun violence but their Nextdoor
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red neighbor doesn't have any gun uh restrictions or or gun violence um measures and so that's what's going to make it even worse because you have people who can just cross state borders and and that only increases the threat of gun violence so I think you know it
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has to be something that Congress needs to act on I don't think they will because they've just been bought by the NRA so heavily at this point but it's another reminder for I think all of us when we head into 2024 every single
00:16:55
House member will be up for reelection and if you're sick and tired of this re ity you have to go out there and vote for people who actually care about your life who who care about you know your children's life and it's clearly not Republicans right now and we have to
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change that otherwise we're just going to keep on having this conversation over and over and over again and I don't think anyone wants to have that anymore I mean then you listen to the NRA the NRA's position is arm everyone every
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teacher should have a firearm in their classroom could you imagine could you imagine the level of stupidity in a comment like that we should be now
00:17:33
arming students we should be arming teachers in classrooms first of all that just because you arm somebody doesn't mean they know how to use the weapon right
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and just because you go to a range doesn't mean that you're proficient at it either there's a big difference in going to the target range even if you hit the bullseye seven out of 10 times
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that's fantastic now do it under a pressure situation right do it when the guy or a girl is there with an AR15 certainly I hope that they weren't
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trying to imply that teachers should have AR-15s attached to the wall but just imagine that there's somebody a young person walking down the hall
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looking to do damage carrying an AR15 and you have a 9 mm a 45 caliber whatever it might be are you really
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going to open the door and get into a gunfight what about the collateral damage that that could cause yeah could you imagine and the level of stupidity
00:18:48
or ignorance or arrogance by the NRA is [ __ ] boundless and I really do hope that Jen zers see it it's the same stupidity and ignorance and arrogance
00:19:01
that you you know that you get from climate deniers you know everybody's talking about oh and you know I I just ran down to Florida there's no State there's no city tax like we have here in
00:19:13
New York I'm saving myself a fortune yeah interesting because the way that they get you back is they hit you with this 2% as the real estate tax based on
00:19:26
the value of the purchase on your home on top of that insurance blood water wind is nearly now impossible to get especially
00:19:40
if you live by the water or in a flood zone I mean you know Florida is not as cheap to live as many people think yeah but all of these issues and they're just
00:19:54
a few we could probably spend the next 50 minutes the next rest of the show talking about the various different issues and never really get to An
00:20:06
Answer other than we need gen Z and the Democratic party Joe Biden needs it desperately so I do know Victor that the
00:20:19
Biden campaign has launched something called students for Biden obviously trying to mobilize gen Z right so my question to you is has Biden's student
00:20:32
loan forgiveness program made any impression on younger voters do you think it's making any difference at all I think it's making a difference and and and at the time that we're recording
00:20:44
this there are new uh 74,000 people have gotten their student loans forgiven um which brings I think the total up to like 3.7 million people total who have gotten their student loans forgiven which is a pretty remarkable number when
00:20:56
you think about it but I I think again sort of the biggest challenge that I'm facing is you know th for the people who are sort of feeling that policy or for the people who are directly being benefited from student loans um that's
00:21:08
different from most geners and I think a lot of geners still don't understand that reality and still don't haven't really felt or heard that policy and so I think that's going to be the biggest challenge for this campaign is sort of how do we get that news how do we get
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the the great news of student loan forgiveness for so many people out to gen zers who care about this issue so much I think it's a mix of going on the places where gen zers are whether it's in person you know going to colleges and
00:21:33
touting these uh programs or going on social media and really going on Innovative social media platforms not just Facebook or Twitter but things like Tik Tok and Instagram and streaming platforms like twitch and and other platforms where young voters are really
00:21:46
concentrated where young voters consume their information more than uh at on those platforms more than um older Generations so are you telling me Victor are you telling me as an example that on
00:21:57
t Tik Tok on Twitch on Instagram that Joe Biden's accomplishments are not being touted regularly yeah because I know that I'm on Tik Tok I have like I don't know
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close to what is it like 250,000 followers or something like that and I know that I talk about this [ __ ] on a regular basis I know I do it on Instagram I know Lincoln project I know
00:22:24
midest touch network does it all the time on on Instagram on Tik Tok on Facebook or X or threads or you know all those social media platforms where is this
00:22:39
Biden campaign that's really designed to missile seek gen zers what are they missing what can we do in order to
00:22:53
educate young people because you're not wrong about this and it upsets me a lot I was in Florida visiting my parents last week and we were sitting with some friends you know um in their community
00:23:07
and their grandson was there very bright boy uh at a you know almost in one of the um top tier schools it wasn't Ivy but it was a top tier school yeah and he
00:23:19
didn't know [ __ ] about [ __ ] and I couldn't believe it and they talk about well Joe Biden is old if I hear that old [ __ ] one more time and I said to him well do you know how
00:23:32
old Donald Trump is he said yeah I think he's around 70 no he's gonna be 78 he's like is he really yeah yeah let me ask you a question and then he asked
00:23:45
another question that had to do with another Biden policy for example the reduction of health care expenses no
00:23:56
clue he then started asking me about you know well you know uh I don't like what's going on at the border okay I grant you that but you do know that
00:24:09
immigration has been an issue in this country for at least the last 60 years so what makes it worse now than it was four years ago or eight years ago or 50
00:24:23
years ago no idea so my question to you because your generation consumes information very different than my generation totally totally my generation
00:24:37
I couldn't wait for the morning when I heard something against the front door go boom and that was generally the guy throwing the newspaper at the front door right which used to piss my mom off but
00:24:51
you know I go out I get the newspaper and while I'm eating my cereal I would be reading the newspaper yeah you guys don't read newspapers anymore actually many people don't read
00:25:02
newspapers anymore yeah they consume information differently so if you were advising this campaign students for
00:25:13
Biden which three platforms would you be targeting in order to get this information out there yeah so first of all you I think I can't stress enough of the different
00:25:28
information ecosystem now to even 20 10 years or 20 years ago 10 years ago you know I I coost a podcast with Jill wine Banks and one of the things we often talk about is during the Watergate era there were only three major networks and all of them pushed the same facts to the
00:25:42
audience but now we live in this very very polarized media ecosystem where there are so many ways for people to you know spread information unvetted you know you look at Twitter anyone can be verified they can be fake they can be real you never know but they can all
00:25:55
spread information at the same rate and what we know about social media um based off of some really interesting studies is that lies travel faster and that's sort of getting to your point about the narratives that young people are hearing about President Biden aren't the good
00:26:07
news and and I'm very grateful for you and for Midas Touch and for all of the people out there pushing the good news because we need we need so much more of that against all of this misinformation all of the negative news against President Biden you know when I talk to
00:26:20
my friends the the first narrative I hear of President Biden like you said is either he's too old or did you see his latest trip or his latest Gaff and when they talk about President Trump they don't talk about the the EXT the you know how dangerous his indictments how
00:26:33
are or you know any of the other crimes he's committing they're talk about they they're talking about sort of the memes from his mugshot they they're making a joke of his latest you know statement um lashing out against you know AG Leticia
00:26:44
James or any other any other um prosecutor of his and so I think a lot of the narratives are so warped because of social media but that's why I think the Biden campaign really needs to get on these platforms quickly we know the Biden campaign is on Truth social which
00:26:57
is interesting but they're not yet on Tik Tok I would say Tik Tok is number one you have to get on Tik Tok um do more short form content on Instagram I think that's going to be really important and I think third um is probably tied for me YouTube and Reddit
00:27:11
um there are a lot of people at least where I'm at and a lot of my friends who consume news through Reddit these subreddit Pages where it's specific subjects or you know issue areas that they tune into on a daily basis and that's how they receive their news so I
00:27:23
think YouTube and and redit are also um going to be major platforms in this election cycle but at least sort of the the people who I'm talking to they aren't seeing enough of that and I think you know the Biden campaign really needs to get on those platforms because
00:27:35
otherwise if you're just on New York Times or MSNBC or CNN or those traditional media networks young people are not listening they aren't watching those networks and when you look at the demographics of those different networks
00:27:48
it's overwhelmingly above the age of 65 even so it's it's something that young people aren't tuning into they have really no appetite for that type of um you know media outlet and so you have to meet young voters where they are and I
00:28:00
think you know social media is going to be a key part of that but I know for students for Biden a key part of that is also going to be meeting young people where they are on college campuses as well sending surrogates to do listening sessions with young people um you know
00:28:13
we're coming off the heels of um vice president Harris doing this really I think historic Nationwide College Tour and when you looked at that there were a lot of people at those events and some of my friends who went there who didn't really feel passionate about vice
00:28:26
president Harris at first or understand what this Administration has accomplished but after hearing and watching vice president Harris engage with young people on the issues they all basically said that you know it was really meaningful to see a vice
00:28:38
president show up in the way that vice president K Harris did it was really meaningful to hear a politician actually spend the time and listen to us and I think that's going to matter in this election yeah so since we were talking
00:28:50
about the student loan forgiveness program yeah it sort of triggers in my mind mind there's a problem with that what about all the kids or the Gen zers that
00:29:04
don't go to college and live in rural areas what's the plan if there is even one to get them behind President Biden yeah well I mean it's a it's a
00:29:18
really important question I think there are a lot of programs when you look at sort of what present Biden has past a lot of it is trying to empower those people who maybe don't have the traditional opportunity that you know myself or or some most geners might have
00:29:31
and I think part of it is helping them either you know I think there's a lot of educational programs right now that would give them the ability to go to let's say a um trade school or some sort of specialized school to to focus on the area that they're interested in there's
00:29:43
a lot of work right now happening um around you know helping small business owners and helping people start up small businesses and I think that's at the essence you know when we hear about this term biomics being thrown around a lot of people don't really understand what
00:29:55
it means but I think at its core it's about empowering the people who have the fewest resources the people who may not be able to access college or those opportunities that that the privilege might be able to access and that's at the centerpiece of this Administration I
00:30:08
think we're seeing it in policy after policy you know this is a president who isn't just benefiting the the richest Among Us or the most privileged Among Us he's really trying to get to the people who are struggling the people who may not have those um AB who may not have
00:30:20
the ability to access those opportunities and whether it's through revitalizing our economy making Healthcare prices lower or helping businesses and giving them the funding they need to start that I think it's really um
00:30:32
important yeah well let's not forget the Uber Rich that Donald Trump is courting they make up what 10,000 50,000
00:30:46
people in the entire country versus everybody else each person I don't care if you're a mega billionaire or if you don't have a a dollar to your name everyone's vote counts the same that's
00:31:01
the beauty of democracy that's the beauty of America right now I want to just jump into this because I know a lot of young people have issues with the way that the Biden Administration has
00:31:13
handled the war in Gaza I hear this [ __ ] all the time I mean and it's to me it's infuriating some of these Jers think that the United States has
00:31:26
supported Israel Over the people living and sadly dying in Gaza plus there's now this entire new wave of anti-Semitism on
00:31:39
campuses that exceeds anything that's been seen for at least the last you know 60 plus years what do you think this is all about and how do you correct the
00:31:52
record it's really tragic first of all you know when when I have friends for instance Cornell or Colombia right now who are really scared of of even going out in public because of their identity and their their Jewish identity it's
00:32:05
it's heartbreaking and like you said anti-Semitism is on the rise islamophobia is on the rise right now just a lot of being a student on college campus right now I think it's very scary for for those particular groups um but I
00:32:17
think this issue in particular is getting a lot of sort of attention and and for right reason I you know I think anyone looking at what's happening right now in Israel and and in Gaza should be terrified you know and and but there seems to be this sort of basic inability
00:32:30
to separate out Hamas which is a terrorist organization I think we have to be very clear about that they launched this October 7th attack on Israel that was totally unprovoked that was totally unjustified and then there's also this inability to separate out sort
00:32:43
of BB Netanyahu and the Israeli people and I think you know anyone who looks at what Netanyahu has done in response to the attacks you know yes they have a right to defend itself but as you know as a lawyer you have to stay within the confines of international rules of Law
00:32:56
and you can't commit really Mass atrocities against just innocent civilians but that what it seems to be happening right now but a lot of young people when they see that they're blaming President Biden for what's happening right now and I think a lot of
00:33:08
it is because of we go back to social media and what what are the narratives being Amplified on places like Tik Tok or Instagram they're things that are totally I think misrepresentative of what's actually happening right now when you look at the record of what President
00:33:21
Biden has done around this issue I think it's been pretty solid he's one said Israel has a right to defend itself which is true you know they they they fa a terrorist attack and Any Nation I think would respond uh against a terrorist attack but two he's been
00:33:34
really forceful in getting uh Netanyahu to stay within the conference of the rules of War he's really sort of negotiated behind the scenes I think that's what doesn't really get enough attention on a place like Tik Tok where there is very little Nuance there is
00:33:48
very little sort of ability to explain these things that are happening behind the scenes and in said people are very quick to I think judge this President simply for supporting Israel and and saying that you know that's that's present by in supporting Mass atrocities
00:34:01
or that's present by in committing genocide when it couldn't be further from the truth and I think the last thing that people often Overlook is you know when they talk about a ceasefire President Biden was able to negotiate a ceasefire there was a extended period of
00:34:13
of pause within the war but the first party to break that was Hamas and so how do you deal with an organization that literally wants to kill Jewish people in Israel it's it's hard and I don't think most people have an answer when you press them on that so I think it's a
00:34:26
very complicated issue but not enough of that is getting sort of pushed out in a place like Tik Tok or Instagram reals or YouTube shorts for that matter okay but you are look let me be clear about it
00:34:39
yeah you are absolutely correct it is a complicated issue it's an issue that has not it didn't start yesterday it didn't start October 7th it
00:34:52
started a long time ago but this as you said was an unprovoked attack there are still hostages being kept we've seen videos of beheadings of children rape
00:35:07
mass murder right kidnapping and so on Despicable acts and I think when you hear from some of the Gen zers I don't even care about that look
00:35:21
at the number of people that are being killed in Gaza they somehow missed the entire point they missed the entire Point here my question to you is you
00:35:33
seem to be very well educated on this issue where did you get your information that distinguishes you from some of these other gen zers that I
00:35:46
speak to that have no [ __ ] clue Victor zero zero about what took place on October 7th they turn around and they claim that
00:35:59
much of the video that has been put out there is not even legitimate it's AI created you really have to start to get concerned when Jen zers are telling you
00:36:14
that videos of paragliders Landing in that that area uh the music festival shooting people like it was a
00:36:27
video game beating girl beating young women raping them taking them as hostage
00:36:37
murdering babies and they tell you that it's artificial intelligence yeah that's been generated what do you do what what do you what can what can we
00:36:51
possibly do to set the record straight because you're right Joe Biden is not responsible for what happened Hamas and Israel obviously has a right to defend
00:37:04
itself within certain yes you know confines but they certainly have a right to defend themselves and to demand the return of the hostages of hostages right how do we get this message out how do we
00:37:19
get this message out it's it's such um you know a hard task because I think so many people have B into whatever narrative that they believe in or whatever belief they believe in right now it's hard to change people's minds but I I will say I think you know I I
00:37:34
have to underscore something and I talked to John Kirby about this um on on our podcast about sort of the challenges that he's facing and one of the things that he said that really struck me was that the the sort of importance of
00:37:46
communication never ends you know you know you can't just go on one platform and you know talk about this issue and expect people to hear about it or for people's minds to change you have to talk about this constantly and you know you have to get the facts out there you have to get the facts out there about
00:37:59
Hamas and the fact that they're a terrorist organization you have to get the facts out there that Netanyahu does not represent all of uh the Israeli people that Hamas doesn't represent all of Palestinians and so I think that's the biggest challeng is just being
00:38:11
really consistent about the facts and understanding that you're probably not going to get everyone to change their minds but I think there are a lot more reasonable voices out there and some of the people that were hearing from right now who are you know on college campuses
00:38:23
and who are the loudest on this issue also tend of people also tend to be the people who aren't voting in the first place or maybe who don't support President Biden in the first place they just want to sew I think chaos in this election and they just want I think you
00:38:36
know for for better for worse I think they just I don't know they tend to be the very loud voices but they don't but they aren't the ones who actually make a difference in elections and I think that's what's going to be really important finding the reasonable young
00:38:47
people in our lives and talking to them in a reasonable way getting the facts out there getting you know what's happening out there to them but I think really understanding that maybe those loudest voices on Tik Tok aren't so representative of most young people when
00:38:59
you look at polls most young people actually support what President Biden has done around this issue but when you listen to Tik Tok or when you you go to a college campus and you hear those loudest voices you think that's representative of most young people when I don't think it is but I think we just
00:39:12
have to be consistent with our messaging we have to emphasize what's going on right now and I think at the end of the day that will prevail that that sort of narrative most young people see that for what it is um and and hopefully they will listen and understand it okay so VI
00:39:26
let me switch gears for a second yeah sure to a more current event because I know that you've been following the egene Carol Case what's your take on
00:39:38
Trump's behavior in court and how judge Lewis Kaplan has handled him so far from the perspective of a young person yeah well first of all uh I think
00:39:50
Donald Trump is doing exactly what he wanted to get out of this entire proceeding which is I mean you know Donald Trump more than better than anyone else but I think he's trying to make this into a show I mean he's trying to make himself as a victim here this is
00:40:02
the entire point of you know him wanting to be at court because he can create drama he can sew chaos and one of the exchanges that we saw between judge Kaplan and Donald Trump was you know at one point he was murmuring under his breath so loudly that in fact um the I
00:40:16
think the jurors could hear the plaintiff's table could hear and so they made comment about everyone could hear right exactly and so Lewis Kaplan judge Kaplan said to Donald Trump you know you you should tone down your voice otherwise you will be kicked out and
00:40:28
then Donald Trump said something along the lines of well you know you would really want that or you know or I would really want that and then he said i' i' like to see you do it right exactly exactly so he's testing I think the limits of this court but judge Kaplan I
00:40:40
think has been one of the best judges in terms of keeping Donald Trump and Alina Haba under control and we saw this the same with Alina Haba his lawyer when she would try to you know cross-examine Ean Caroll or when she would try to raise
00:40:52
objections and and judge Kaplan stepped in in really forceful ways to control her um and I think there's this sort of one of the things that we're seeing I think in these Court proceedings is When Donald Trump is present there seems to be a difference in terms of how his
00:41:05
lawyers act and I'm wondering Michael do you see this as well sort of the effect of what Donald as a client you know what lawyers will do to to serve their client when they're actually there um and I just wonder sort of what would have
00:41:18
happened if Donald Trump wasn't there what alenina hoba have acted differently would this have been different um but I think so much so let me answer let me answer that question really briefly Alina Haba has limited to no trial
00:41:31
experience so whether Donald was in the courtroom or not she doesn't even understand the very basics of the introduction of evidence into the record
00:41:44
she just doesn't understand it so it made no difference if Donald was there or not there but you are right the things that they say the performance that they give is not to to the court
00:41:57
it's not to the jury if there it's a jury trial it is to one person their client so that their client knows that they are fighting for him even though
00:42:10
they're making [ __ ] out of themselves it doesn't make a difference I saw Chris kais do that Chris kais is actually or was I should say a respected attorney he was yeah but his
00:42:23
behavior at the new York attorney general case the Civil fraud case that's going on was beyond despicable and only because judge engoron is a much more
00:42:38
patient judge he is a much more forgiving judge than leis Kaplan is he allowed Alina habba to do to me the things that she was trying to do to
00:42:51
egene Carol but judge was not gonna have any of it zero now maybe the difference is because you know and Goron you know realized one I could handle myself and two it's not a jury trial it was a bench
00:43:05
trial because habba failed to check the box for a jury right maybe he was gonna give her more latitude in that right wrong and different makes no difference
00:43:18
she has no idea what she's doing and you know there's an expression if you can't Dazzle with your Brilliance baffle him with your [ __ ] and that's exactly what Lena Alena habba is all about you
00:43:33
know she doesn't need to be smart because she's pretty right yeah that's true yeah no I mean it's such an interesting point and going back to I was just say one thing that really struck me throughout the
00:43:46
hearing and and for anyone who's read sort of the exchanges um it's just so gut-wrenching on every level to hear about what Ean Caroll has had to go through this is someone who didn't want this thrust upon her whatsoever but Donald
00:43:59
Trump made it an effort to smear Ean Caroll and when you listen to sort of her her she was once just a revered writer she was a writer she was someone who wanted to just live a normal life but she couldn't live a normal life and it reminds me so much of Ruby Freeman
00:44:11
and sheas they were people who just were Ordinary People they didn't want this to happen to them but because of Republicans and and far-right extremists and Donald Trump the reality is totally different and I think at the end of the
00:44:23
day the question in this case and and so many people much smarter than I am people who have law degrees have said at the end of the day it's what will it take for Donald Trump to learn a lesson how much money will it take for Donald Trump to actually stop smearing people
00:44:35
to actually stop attacking people for no reason and I hope the jury makes the right call here you know you know what I think Rudy Giuliani was forced to pay I think was a good amount and I hope Donald Trump has has to pay just as much
00:44:47
Rudy hasn't been able to pay it because yeah but Rudy hasn't been able to pay in fact he's filed for bankruptcy which Ruby Freeman Shay Moss uh his councel uh you know brought a motion to the court
00:44:59
claiming that the only reason that he filed that bankruptcy is in order to do what's called uh you know debt ACC creditor possession um protection you know we'll see what happens with Rudy
00:45:12
kudi drunken Giuliani but very different than Donald because you know Rudy doesn't have the money to pay Donald does but it's not only that Donald has that money to pay Donald has the ability
00:45:27
to raise the money to pay he can easily put out another 50 60 you know uh posts you know asking hey Patriot they did it to me again they're trying to they're
00:45:40
trying to bankrupt me you know uh I need you know I'm doing this for you support me with you know $10 15 20 50 whatever it might be that's what Donald is all about he is the greatest grifter in
00:45:54
Chief that this country has ever seen but you know if I can because you brought up the whole issue at the very beginning of this conversation regarding immigration as one of the topics that
00:46:06
Jen zers are concerned about I want to really be clear about this Republicans don't want the immigration issue fixed because it's good for them politically not good for the country not
00:46:21
good for the world but it's good for the Republican party at least that's what they think so how do you think that the Biden Administration should handle the border and what do we do to get geners
00:46:36
involved you see I think that the more that the geners are involved people like yourself you relate better to another gen Z than I do and if you're out there
00:46:50
somehow talking about it arguing the fact that Republicans don't want want this immigration issue fixed there's a better likely chance that a genzer will
00:47:02
listen to you then certainly listen to me and a much better chance that they'll listen to me I think then they'll even listen to the president yeah yeah no it's right and and Studies have shown that actually the most effective
00:47:15
Messengers to reach gen zers aren't politicians aren't people who are older than them it's their peers and so to get to young people to actually persuade them on a particular issue you have to find trusted Messengers and those trusted Messengers aren't the people who
00:47:28
are on you know MSNBC or the people who are commentating they aren't Joe Biden they aren't Karen JN Pier they're people who are directly in that young person's life or there are people who young people can relate to and it's much easier again like you said to relate to
00:47:40
someone who is of your age and to relate to someone who is much older than you or to relate to someone who is a politician who who might be distan from your life and so I think yes we have to get young people out there spreading that message and to that point about the message it's
00:47:53
actually a really simple message that I am very shocked that mainstream media has not given it the attention it deserves which is Republicans at Point Blank said that they do not want to solve this issue of immigration because President Biden is in office they want
00:48:05
to deal him a blow they want to you know make this into a political wedge issue in 2024 they've set it out loud speaker Mike Johnson who you know quote unquote cares so much about immigration said over the weekend after there was a
00:48:18
bipartisan bill in the Senate that he wouldn't support it at all you know that tells you I think everything you need to know about sort of the moment that living in right now where there are some faithful I think Republicans in the Senate trying to make this happen
00:48:31
because they understand what a big issue this is but you have then House Republicans who are totally um willing to slash all of that just because they want to deal a loss to President Biden I think it's very important for all of us who are in this sort of you know
00:48:43
messaging space to make that as clear as possible this is not on Democrats this is not on President Biden this is on House Republicans and speaker Mike Johnson who are willing to sabotage our country for politics and you know I was reading the new yorktimes times this
00:48:56
morning and they have a headline out there that's trying to suggest that this is because of President Biden that you know this is President Biden's making that this is going to ruin President Biden's foreign policy agenda without mentioning the fact that Republicans are
00:49:07
the ones who are trying to uh sabotage this deal I think we have to be very clar eyed about that because that's again that's the choice that faces us into this election Republicans want you to believe that they care about these issues they're you know they're going
00:49:19
around the country touting the inflation reduction act they're going around the country touting the infrastructure act well not a single one of them voted for for it and I think it's really shameful and we have to be very clear that you know I'm glad President Biden is calling him out calling them out but it has to
00:49:32
be more than president bid and calling them out it has to be the media it has to be all of us you know whether on our respected platforms I'm grateful that you do it on your podcast basically every week um we have to be very clear about the threat the real threat right
00:49:45
now which is House Republicans and their willingness to just play politics with every issue that we care about so let me ask you this because I know a lot of gen zers because
00:49:56
of my daughter and my son yeah and for a while there I had been hearing from a lot of them and some actually even did this they moved to Texas you know and I asked them why why
00:50:10
are you moving to Texas and their response to me Texas has a great Buzz whether it's Dallas or Austin you know that Texas had a or has this sort of
00:50:21
great Buzz about it but then you turn around and you look and then you Greg Abbott as your Governor could possibly be the absolute [ __ ] worst
00:50:32
worst governor in the entire Union this [ __ ] jerk off supports all the wrong things as far as I'm concerned pregnant women are dying immigrants are dying they drowning in
00:50:47
the Rio Grand there's anyone still that you know around your generation do you think that Texas is cool it's becoming much harder I think
00:51:00
for a lot of young people who you know let's say they moved to Texas a couple years ago to actually support what's happening in a state like Texas or Florida for that matter when their entire agenda seems to be waging a war
00:51:12
on young people you look at like you said the immigration is the immigration situation they're doing right now is terrible Reproductive Rights are under assaults in Southern States but it's also basic things like voting rights you look at what's happening in a state like
00:51:23
Texas there's right now A bill that's pending the the state legislature but if pass we know that Greg gabbett would signed it which is that they want to ban all polling locations from college campuses they don't want any college campus to have a single polling location
00:51:35
because I think they're really scared of young people they're really scared of the threat that we pose to their ability to stay in power and so their tactic isn't to meet us where we are their tactic isn't to listen to us is it isn't to understand the issues we care about
00:51:47
it's to suppress our voices and I think for a lot of young people we're seeing right through that which is why I think you're seeing a lot of organizers right now in Texas really trying to combat those voter suppression laws but you also unfortunately have a lot of people who have moved to Texas in recent years
00:52:00
who are I think starting to question that you know when you're you're starting to look around you you see books being banned you see education coming under assault you see Reproductive Rights coming under assault it's not a state that most people I think want to live in and I think it
00:52:12
goes beyond just young people it's parents of young people when they send their kids off to schools and they see that they're you know kid can't read um Tony Morrison or they see wor he doesn't need to read don't worry about to
00:52:26
carrying a gun exactly exactly I mean they allow people to carry a gun but they don't allow people to vote I mean that's how perverse it is right now in those Southern States but I think a lot of people are starting to wake up to that you know you look at what happened in Tennessee recently when the Tennessee
00:52:40
3 stood up there was a massive groundwell in there was a massive movement that rose up um in support of the two legislators who got fired simply for advocating for gun violence uh reform and I think most young people
00:52:52
most people are fed up with that and most people just want to change that I think that's going to be a really big animating factor in 2024 is is a response to all of the sort of nonsense that Republicans are are imposing on on
00:53:04
young people yeah I mean you know Greg Abbot's got some real problems when his belief system is it's okay for you at the age of 18 to buy a firearm but you
00:53:15
can't go to the store and buy a beer I mean that's got that that's really got to turn around and piss somebody you know piss young people off so let me just move on for and ask you because we did talk a little bit about President
00:53:28
Biden but you know who we didn't talk about we didn't talk about kamla Harris has kamla caught fire with your generation at all because we know that we know at least my generation I believe
00:53:41
she's highly effective but the Press doesn't feature her enough what's your take on her popularity and do you think that she might be you know president
00:53:53
material someday uh short answer on your question about whether or not she's effective absolutely she is and and she but like you said she does not get enough attention of that I suspect it might be because of her race I suspect it might
00:54:06
be because of her gender and her being the first black woman as president of Vice President of the United States but I I think she deserves more credit for that when you listen to her speeches when you look at her interview she was just on The View this week and she fed
00:54:18
questions from um a bunch of people on that show you know it's not a really it's not a really easy crowd on that show but she did it so effectively she did it so brilliantly but she doesn't really get enough attention for it and I wish she did because she is such a
00:54:31
talented communicator and you know we talked about this Nationwide College Tour that she did and all you have to look at are the the lines that waited for her the the lines stretched around the block to wait for her and then when they got into the arena the level of
00:54:45
energy and the level of enthusiasm for young people to see someone who looks like them you talk about someone who you know representation and you talk about the importance of representation well vice president Harris is exactly what we want to see in government someone who is
00:54:57
a trailblazer someone who is the first of her kind someone who doesn't look like most vice presidents in American history which have been white men you know and I think that's refreshing for a lot of young people to see that sort of representation and I think you know the
00:55:10
first couple of years of the vice presidency were a bit challenging for KLA Harris she took on issues that I think were frankly a bit out of her purview and I think for hard for any politician to handle but she's really stepped into I think her her ground game
00:55:22
which is abortion rights which is a big issue that young people care about like we've said and she's also leaning into some of those culture War issues that Republicans are waging right after Ronda santis somehow Justified slavery as having a personal benefit to black
00:55:36
people during that time she went to Florida and she was the first to respond to uh Greg to sorry Ronda santis and I think that really is important and she's also taking on voting rights as a really key issue she's done a bunch of voting
00:55:47
rights roundtables and listing sessions with um activists in that space and I think that really matters so young people I think do really find right vice president Harris as an effective Communicator they see someone who looks like them um in the spaces that we
00:56:00
occupy and I think that's really important and I hope she gets out there more often I know she's embarking on a Reproductive Rights tour um starting in Wisconsin I think next week um so I think she's really hitting the ground running but we we need to see more of I
00:56:13
think people like kbell Harris being those Messengers for this administration because I think young people will listen to kamla Harris far more than they'll Listen to Someone Like Joe Biden um and and we need to get her out there far
00:56:24
more than she is right now at least yeah and look I I'm I'm a fan of Kamas and I also don't think that she gets out enough and I don't think the Press you know covers her uh you know properly the
00:56:38
only problem that Kamala actually has the way I see it is that she's a female and that she's black and I would hope that J zers who are much more tolerant
00:56:53
than Gen X or you know or uh the Baby Boomers and so on my hope is that this would incentivize them to get angry to
00:57:06
get mad yeah and the only way to fight back is with the vote because your vote is equal to Donald Trump's vote your
00:57:19
vote is equal to any of the other you know 1% that are you know old white men so yeah I'm I'm with you on that and I think I don't think she gets the proper credit
00:57:33
that she deserves but Victor you know the hour here on Maya Kula goes by very very quick yeah I I have one last question that I just want to throw out there when you look at what's going on
00:57:46
at a time when so many people don't know truth from fiction or as my generation likes to say you ass from your elbow and the right is under the spell or group
00:58:00
psychosis do you imagine that your generation will be able to bridge that divide I I do and and and and I have a lot of optimism for this generation because I think for as much you know of
00:58:15
the of the nonsense and cast that we're seeing on on some issues I think for the most part young people are very pragmatic young people are very Savvy with with social media and they're able to think cut through the noise and really see BS when when when it's out
00:58:28
there and and I think see right through the noise and so I'm optimistic that young people will be the ones who save us but I I want to get to something that I've been thinking about a lot which is you know it's I think this election more than ever before it's going to be the
00:58:39
little things that matter um so much more than I think past elections you know it's great that we get to have this conversation it's great that you know people get to go on MSNBC and and have a large audience but I think what's going to be so important this election are
00:58:51
just ordinary people who are living their lives doing ordinary things and helping sustain our democracy and so I think if you're anyone listening out there right now if you know a young person in your life you know talk to them you know be that be that trust and messeng their life talk to them about
00:59:04
the issues that they care about register someone to vote send a postcard to someone out on college campus be the one that you know reaches gen zies because that's I think what's going to matter far more than you know any conversation that happens on any social media
00:59:17
platform on any cable network it's going to be those little things that matter every day and I know a lot of young people at least who I talk to when you have those conversations on a one-on-one level young people really listen you know I I had someone come up to me the other day who wondered you know what the
00:59:30
heck has President Biden ever accomplished and you know we had a conversation I I walked her through all of the things that President Biden has accomplished and by the end of that conversation she felt a lot better about the state of our country and she felt a lot better about this Administration and
00:59:42
said she would vote for Joe Biden but I think those little conversations matter so much just as much as what happens um out there on social media so but but but Vic hold on whoa time out on that one
00:59:54
because that goes back to question about seven or eight questions ago when I turned around and I said to you how is it possible this young lady that you were speaking to that didn't know a
01:00:05
single accomplishment that Joe Biden had made over the last three years what school is she in is she in college yeah she met UCLA yeah okay
01:00:19
you're talking about a fine institution all right you're not talking about Trump University here how is it possible that she could wake up on any given
01:00:30
day turn on a television unless I mean your generation really doesn't watch the news they don't watch television they really watch Netflix Hulu you know Amazon Apple
01:00:43
whatever how is it possible though with everything that's been going on the chaos in the world that she could be so out of touch it's the way I felt when I
01:00:56
was talking to that young man completely devoid of any facts whatsoever so right is the answer Tick Tock because if the answer is Tik Tock
01:01:10
[ __ ] I will call the White House right [ __ ] now yeah and say Joe has to take his shirt off on Tik Tock and do something in order to get somebody's
01:01:20
attention the fact that a college a UCLA college student could not name a single Biden accomplishment that I find
01:01:37
is it's devastating I mean it's it's I find it I find it just incredible and sad all at the same time it is devastating and sad all at
01:01:50
the same time and I think part of it is just people really aren't paying attention they aren't they aren't looking at this you know I think a lot of people in DC they tend to be wrapped I think around they think what they're doing is the most important they think that everyone's paying attention to the
01:02:02
what they're doing and that's just simply not the case and I think yes Tik Tok is part of the answer but so is you know all of us having like like I said you know those small conversations understanding why don't people understand the facts what are the places
01:02:13
where people are consuming their information and understanding the role that all of us have as trusted Messengers with young people in our lives to spread those facts and as frustrating I think as it is just have that conversation I think you'll find that a lot of young people once they
01:02:25
hear those facts they become much more aware but I and I wish it wasn't the case I wish you had many more young people who knew what this Administration is accomplished but unfortunately they don't and I think the only solution to this is yes get to the places where
01:02:38
young people are and have conversations with young people um and and and really get them to understand the facts and and I think once they do um we we'll see something shift but you know I hope the campaign is listening I hope the campaign will get on those platforms
01:02:51
much quicker and much more aggressive than they are right now well from your mouth to God ear Vic study hard do well my friend keep talking to these individuals look forward to seeing you again very soon
01:03:04
and the next time I'm in La I'm coming to see you there you see La all right sounds good next time I'm in New York I'll see you that's thanks so much bye now
End of transcript