Video: Open Global Mind Call #5: Buckets (DocDrop)

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everyone how's Zurich this fine afternoon it looks nice from the window haven't been out actually been cranking away on things I talked to Hank briefly

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just a short while ago and I'm still finishing editing a radio show that I have to send over to the video station so I'm slightly distracted checking in but yeah get into it okay but you see

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you're on the coast as well yeah that was it mmm it was interesting I just in reflecting a little bit I was kind of surprised that there isn't a quick way to understand what colas is that there's

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no like a here's 30 minutes you can invest and you'll be like wait he's having Peter and Hank Pulis pol is is a citizen

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platform that it was created by a group called V Taiwan in actually in Seattle I think actually Pulis is from Seattle right I don't think it was actually created by the Taiwan yeah it might be

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the first or most notable use case partner organization it's Colin McGill and I think it's the main founder and then I forgot exactly who else and I was

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Liz berry who's come in more recently who were working with and went through Tom at leas circle and she's and basically the the way she put it actually um a couple of things were interesting we can come back to about

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last night but so she's heading up the nonprofit which is the new company a polis it sort of failed as a for-profit as she put it and it's another going in this nonprofit direction which I'm just hearing about

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I'm hey learn and what else yeah I think that's the main thing so it's kind of between and Colin actually wasn't there yesterday although he was on the previous week so he's sort of in the mix on hand they're doing a bunch of things

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on the ground in Minneapolis for example it's taking a lot of energy but I think they want they definitely want a feedback and need it and there's sort of particular ways I think that and

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everybody up we're talking about a call that I joined yesterday that's that's been going a couple times before that hosted by a guy named Tom Atlee who is a world-class genius in democratic participation about a platform called

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polis POS which is being used in Taiwan for a project called V Taiwan and gauzy Rho G 0 V dot word I think and they're

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basically it's a high-functioning democratic participation platform where people can inform decisions better and it's clearly a kind of a community that we would love to to bring into the conversations here so trying to figure

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some of that out and I was trying to figure out is this a platform we should be using in some way for some of the work we're doing how does it fit but the conversation had a had a big piece of half the people didn't really know what

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the platform was or it was like the three blind men and the elephant but nobody had touched the elephant really yet yeah it's kind of like I think there was a kind of subgroup on the email

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thread that was highlighted that actually were so far community of interest and we can't be a community of practice because we don't know what to do with the thing a couple of them of us do us Andy pace the notable person in

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London has been working with it in the communities there with them with the mayor in this area for example and I think tom has a lot of insight but more just from looking into it and not really

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using it so much and so the tutorial is in the mix I think that's coming and that was another take away from from yesterday and I'll do a tiny and I'm like really interested in there being a simple tutorial for this thing I'll just

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do a little brain insuring one of the key people in this project the project is kind of V Taiwan I mentioned me there we go so here's me Taiwan and here's the gov project that started in 2014 and

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there and Audrey there we go so here's gov tech power tools for dis corpse came out of the student the sunflower student movement back when so don't remember if you remember the protests that were happening called the sunflower movement

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but they're sort of showed up this thing called V Taiwan that then was using the platform polis so here's that and Audrey

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is in the middle of this and she joined me along with a colleague named Xu yang Lin for this call here I'll put them up put the link in our chat back in 2017 she joined me for this really

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interesting call about what they were up to and I was like oh this is very cool that was around at the same time that Tom at Lee was talking a lot with Audrey they had I think nine hours or more of

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conversations probably more actually a lot of exchanges that I was copied in some of those and he wrote a kind of epic series of blog posts like five cards on the Taiwan and everything kind

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of going deep you know really interesting so there we go my brain just came back Charles yeah I can find those sure thank you

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hey Jerry real quick I just noticed that the invite that it looks like you sent out contains the old link without a password oh I picked up started okay so

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that's a problem can we send repeat to the list yeah so the one that we're in you just copied to me right yep okay let

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me do that then and Kenneth is sending a note saying can't get into the meeting password so let me just post it to the root of the list

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yeah no problem yeah [Music] I think that's right soon okay just sent

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a note to the list that would explain why I shall take it in etc okay so I have a couple emails here from people who are not able to get in that's good that explains what's going on boys yeah shoot thank you for

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catching that I was confused about what was happening all right and why don't we go around and check in a little bit just

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to catch up oh good Edward awesome thank you sorry for the misleading link there we go okay Kenneth to join I gene

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excellent George fabulous sorry for the screw-up everybody my fault for sending the wrong link out to get into the room I was

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treating it like an energy an Arg like that alternate reality game yes trying to find where the password could possibly be in all our course that's what you know it was hidden in cues in my message if you could if you could

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decipher the palindrome and then slay the dragon you would find your way here but the much easier way was for for Hank to say hey you sent the wrong link and for me to copy the right link into an email when I started is baloney

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Catania fine fine too hot here really midsummer has hit yeah yeah yeah nice to be here with all of you Bono's es para todos nosotros thank you

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for being here what do I Lauren you want to check in oh hi I just I'm super happy to be here um and my kids are not in

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school they're at a little day camp so I don't have to go pick them up during her Carl usually it's kind of uh difficult for me so I'm I'm really happy to be able to just sit here and enjoy

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the grown-up suite and we get your full attention which we love yeah and so I'm partners with Charles who's also here Charles Blass and we run something called pica lab which is

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working collective intelligence and we're all about collective intelligence so so a part of the goal of today's call is to sort out what are our early projects and how do we form up into sub

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conversations that can take on some of these some of these kinds of questions uncle do you want to just check in since you were just oh yeah yeah yeah well and good morning everyone again this is Han consulate in Bay City

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in Madrid Spain and I'm running a social media marketing company that I set up back in 2009 I'm as well as you all you in an

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infinite learning operating system mode and I met Jerry two months ago at extra world it got really hooked with his

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thoughts and we catch up later on and I'm in this working group and very very excited to be here and apologize because the last two session I couldn't attend

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but anyway I had gone through the last session through the youtube link and really really interesting they have some thoughts on that awesome fabulous thank you come often do on the chicken

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tur we're checking out polis I get sucked into the post website so it's so sorry excellent that's good hi from Boston hot balmy Boston no and that's it I'm

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working I'm excited this week to talk with Peter van tomorrow maybe this will be a segue to Peter and I can step on everything he was gonna say we finally actually got Rhian vited back into sigh

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bows to inner tribe to do a crazy webinar one-of-a-kind never seen for pirate TV experience for in a tribe so uh so I'm excited that we're building

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something yeah yeah that's gonna be cool and working with some cool people and hopefully you guys will be able to see it and we will let you know that sounds awesome and I spoke at this mystical Sipos conference for Peter

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in 2010 I think something like that that sounds right in Toronto I think so it's a financial services conference and Peter is the provocateur he is the agent

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of disruption for the for the industry in some senses do you want to check in since it seems like a natural segue have so many nicknames for me for cutter why

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not yeah I'm doing really fine not only the nice project that we are going to do with tan I mean what is on mine

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what are two things there I have launched my virtual art exhibition the first of July I can send you guys a link so you can walk around you you want me

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to put it in or are you going to put it in ham yeah so that's a normally it was a in-person exhibition but for Kovach we

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couldn't do that so I created an online one and there is also an augmented reality part that with your iPhone you can select the painting and see whether it works in your living this is

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something like that and then on the 15th I will release the what I call the very nice video and so just before this call

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I was editing that video and up since 5:00 a.m. this morning because I just was awake yeah and so I could work in the silence of the home nicely editing

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away and then the other thing that may be interesting for this group from a Content point of view i virtually bumped into a good old friend of mine i think you know him a jury

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[Music] sounds like a guy from Copenhagen Thomas Marvin McDowell did better better ventures or better works and those

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things I could see it hundred times I saw him yesterday on anyway I'll find back that's all we need to know yeah it's a guy in Copenhagen yeah and he's as a start-up that just came

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comes out of stealth mode it's called every voice dot i/o every voice dot IO and what they're doing they

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basically have interviews with people and they listen to the audio to our previous conversation of text only or not only so they listen to audio of people and they can reveal the hidden

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stories of organizations or institutions and they have a nice interface on top of that that is showing what are the things that are being discussed and what are the emotions that are in the group so

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much better from an HR perspective than the annual survey or 360 degree views where people don't say everything that they care about I thought it interesting

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I don't know how far they are oh it's Steve Jennings yes Steve Jennings yeah okay I'm just looking at their website and I met Steve I he was in Elmo but his family okay he's now in

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Antwerp in Antwerp I think it was in Singapore mystery solved

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thank thank you Peter thank you on chicken yeah I'll make it quick you know I briefly kind of said to Jerry and Peter earlier at the start of this

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call I didn't think you know for the past couple days really thinking about part of the conversation that we talked about earlier given that we're now moving into kind of this more buckets conversation right one of the early questions that we discussed

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was what is the difference between the think space in the dream space and you know what is the role of the artist in this whole mix and there's something that I've kind of started putting some some mental calories towards so my ideas

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aren't really quite articulated fully but they're getting there and that's that's really kind of where my head's been at specifically and in reference to this project so that's why I check in but um Edward you checked in a little

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bit in the chat you want to just check in live yeah I was just trying to be able to get right my boss my kitten from purring directly into my microphone here

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but uh yeah my name is Edward Gordon I've known Jerry I think I've known you in that we've been in contact for something like four years I think we've known each other for about six or seven when I'm not getting paid I work with

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job hackers were a non-profit giving away more than a million dollars in the pre-training to I think we've done it for about we have about 500 600 students so far over the last three years we've been incorporated in pre-training bike

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riding a free six week class and agile software development self development methodologies which includes hard skill training gives at prep students for the professional scrum master 1 certification and our next class is

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August support welcome to see more at every ww1 and I have an interest in all this because I knew Jerry threw vex and

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are you seeing a blip rise in people interested because I've locked down and basically the chaos the ideally economy the isolation economy is really interesting in this um I was working

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with Larry over the last two years to be able to move them from a primarily co-located classroom to I mean currently we are entirely remote and we saw an increase in our remote classroom size

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from 20 to 32 with the work I did we have a hundred and seventy starting but it's a free class but it's from 7:30 than 9 in the mornings on Tuesday and Thursday for six weeks and so you see

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about a 40 the 60% attrition rate but even then that's pretty impressive that we've been seeing mm-hm just more people coming in on the first time cool cool really interesting

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ken do you want to check in this early on the left coast and you were muted still we don't hear you if you are checking in gene said he's on a different call so I'm not gonna ping

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gene Jamie I've stepped away George hi everybody yes to Romania when was the US yeah well

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I'm the youngest guy from from all of you and it's not so good I will try to explain it as well as I can what for now I'm just gonna stay on the

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conversation and listen and maybe creating mmm ideas so I hope you don't mind I'm not gonna participate to to your conversation about ideas for now

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you can jump in whatever and however you feel like thank you for being here yeah okay thinking thank you for really appreciate it yeah so a couple of things one is

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I've been attempting to turn some of these concepts into a service layer and find us a project with one of my large clients that conversation is is

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progressing to the next step or now at the CFO level so I feel pretty good that we're getting somewhere and at some point I'd love to engage you know this community in actually thinking about the

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work itself but we're trying to bring we're trying to bring sort of this notion and actually if I could just quickly screen share I'm sorry but this can everyone see that

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yep and we're trying to we're trying to say that you know the way that most organizations work today is they analyze things they bring it into some sort of structured container they make decisions and they they go ahead and they execute

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and this works in a pretty stable environment but we're not living in a stable environment and so where we're proposing and this is sort of the the idea is that we start moving to a place

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where we're sensing in a much broader in a holistic way layering on multiple frames where you make sense of that and then that stuff starts to filter out into the change making process and this

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is this was my response to Hamilton's challenge to me - how do you model what is a GM and I'd love to get reactions and thoughts but this is kind of what we're trying to sell into into this

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corporate environment to see if we can fundamentally change the way that they that they think and decide and act as an organization so that's what I've been

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working on well thank you and let's let's get Peter to peter van to check in and then head toward maybe we can get some feedback on your your animation

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illustration but I do we here for Peter we got you to remember I skipped your order Jerry I know that's right sorry never mind that's right do we miss anybody Jean is probably

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still on the call Ken good you're back all right for some reason my internet dropped out there ah hello everybody morning afternoon evening where we might be checking in you know I gotta say that

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for the first time since the lockdown began up you know a little bit oppressed justice shifted my mood where it's just starting to wear on me and I've become very concerned about the mood I'm seeing

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out there I think it's wearing it everybody and there seems to be a much more heightened a much lower threshold for getting in arguments and I'm seeing someone horrible things on social media and in

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the news and normally I'm pretty upbeat but I'm feeling just a little bit out of sorts today so I might be a little quieter than usual and you might be you have a very good

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sort of radar or detection system for these things you might be picking up world world irritation in some sense where I I agree I think that that everybody's impatient now with lockdown

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and and in many cases really under distress from the prospects from what's happened you know April was telling me yesterday that one of the major airlines

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is dropping 30,000 or 60,000 employees unless travel picks up and it's like that's you know forty percent to their workforce and that's that's Airlines

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right and that's not travel and tourism and there's just a whole bunch of very very very hard hit industries in some industries so as a and and I think one of the interesting questions as we head

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into a discussion about how to reorganize ourselves is what sort of things might we do that would be useful to people in those situations to communities in those situations so thank you for bringing that into the

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conversation pleasure map you want to screen share again and and let's just see if anybody has any thoughts about the oldest illustration yeah absolutely

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everyone did everyone get a chance to go I just want to make your yeah exactly okay I think so yeah so it just and it

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goes pretty fast here but just this whole thing of you know we analyze in a world it's really it's sort of this methodical process of dissecting and processing there are all these different

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decision-making models that you have or you list out a bunch of different alternatives and then you choose the best alternative and then you go ahead and you you execute those things and and

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into into a world where you need to actually not have just a single frame of viewing right this kind of goes in in the middle that sense-making has to have multiple different lenses and

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frames Maps if you will and that those things have to be used to draw in a broader sense of information and I know Jerry your comment around that the

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information is in sort of a of a simple stream like here it's really just like this you know maybe it was more random pieces but then that starts to radiate out ideas and aligned perspectives that

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actually produce the kind of change that you that you want to make and open global mind is about for me is about transforming kind of the known world and the way that we are today

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what is into into what might be and so it's not perfect for our work but I think this is a way of expressing it into this corporate environment saying here's what we're trying to build for you a whole new way of running your

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business right one that is much more sensitive and maybe less less explicit in its analysis in this decision-making

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but it's it's more organic and and and Peter I'm going to part of the thing that I was reading that it was the whole B'nai stuff and this idea of this is more about kayaking than it is you know you know kind of kayaking through the

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whitewater rapids than it is about sort of this logical linear you know we take the fin we make decisions and then we and then we execute on those things because we know our plans and we know our our answers and all it is is about

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you know organizing people to get it done so what are people's thoughts and reactions so Ken we made a comment in the in the chat you want to jump in yeah look can you hear me oh go ahead okay

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okay well I I love how you are visualizing what is the current scenario we are involved in we have to deal with right now because the world before and

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the pandemic was quite still and you are highlighting the stress we all are suffering I learned that them Mooka two years ago vulnerability and certainty complexity

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ambiguity but that term is even more highlight nowadays so I think this is a very nice way to to to set the existing

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environment thank you so Gerry my my comment as I look at this it seems to me that putting what might be after change

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making kind of mirrors part of our problem we tend to just do things first and figure out what it is so I think there might be a distant this is my personal opinion I'd totally open to two

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other views here but I think we need to sense him and feel into what might be before we started the process of change making so that's why I put they that they should swap quizzes I think you know what I really like that and I guess

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the the piece that's not expressed here well is that there is this there is this like I almost see there's this line between what is and what might be and if you imagine that that line is actually

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the Ark of humanity all things that what is is on one side and what might be is on the other but you're right the way that it looks here is change making happens and then you get to what might be it really is the the sense making

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happens at the boundary of what is and what might be right is that what you're saying or is the what might be even part of the sensing process in my world what might be comes from you know first

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establishing a shared understanding and exploring what are possibilities here and and if we allow ourselves to enter into an imaginative phase where you suspend the laws of physics and we have

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unlimited budget we can generate a ton of really interesting ideas and then choose from among them the things that we think are actually going to work given our constraints and then begin the process of how do we actually make that happen I thought it and there might also

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be a difference between what might be and what becomes yes meaning what might be is imaginal it's it's about you know what do we think is possible what world do we want to create how do we want to shape events if that's

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even possible and there's this whole conversation about and I in the chat I mentioned the connivance framework Dave Snowden's Kevin framework where he says in a complex environment you have to you

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can't hire experts to tell you what to do and then go execute on that and expect those things to work out you have to in fact experiment sense respond etcetera but it could be that that your end state here isn't yet an end state

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it's it's like you know what is and what what will be what will be or what becomes and that what might be is an important imagining stage in between lives I think you're right I think it

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lives on that boundary hurry of of what is and what becomes I think that I think that that's I like I like that guys also because since making as I'm thinking

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about it involves a kind of modeling of how you wish things would be or why you think things got to where they are right it's just like so in some sense sense making involves questions like how did we get here

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why did this happen why would this person have done this terrible stupid thing that got us into this situation those the sorts of things are things we asked ourselves as we try to make sense and then on the we look toward the

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future so that's trying to make sense of how on earth did we get here from the past as we look to the future what might be is one of the big questions and it's one of the big questions we don't ask ourselves enough usually we're asking ourselves how do I control this this

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crazy unruly past in order to channel it towards something that'll be useful toward me in my people whether that's a company and its employees and its shareholders unfortunately or whether it's you know you're a community that's

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trying to get something done so it's a there's this aspect of imagination in there I'm a hundred percent there and I think you know as I've been thinking about the sense making process I've been thinking that there's there's sort of

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three core skills one is imagination right I think that's there and that's the connect space idea of the dream space and the artists mind and those sorts of things one is contemplation which is sort of the kind of the deep

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thought and the deep processing of things and then the third is meditation right which is the ability to sort of sit with yourself in the context of the changes that are happening around

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you and in the world that is there in your own relationship um you know to that and so I think this idea of what might be is really your you guys are spot-on so good change any other any

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other thoughts there cuz I think this is great and I'm gonna use all of this in my in my conversation with my client well I mean man I I love this motto you

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know and I think I just keep coming back to with all models decide you know and Jerry you know who said this I always forget it right you always correctly said or George box you even know what I was gonna say before I said it right that all I was perfect but some are

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useful right that you know can your model of sense making is another layer on top of this that there is no perfect model and that Mac for your models for me spark all these little micro models or macro models and I just think it's so

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I think it's great I think it's like it's it's how progress is made I love it so I love your model and I think you know for me maybe I'll just say like one little layer I have is I clicked in for

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a client between sense making and change making because they're in their context they needed an extra note and this is a term Jerry helped me get to a choice making right so there's a sensing and then there is a changing but there's

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also this this filtering process and we talked about well isn't that really what part of sense making is it can be right so the both are right I guess it just depends on the lens or the frame right so I just think I don't know I think

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that model is a really interesting jumping-off point it tells a really nice story I think it's really clear I like the evolution from old to new can we can we stay here for just a second I know

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where I'd love to you know one of the things that I've been thinking about change is as you look at cultures its what we believe transforms into how we behave and how

00:32:48

will you behave transforms into our you know transforms into their the way that we act upon the world around us right and so there's one there's one theory that says okay

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you go through a process you make sense of it and then you make a choice and then you move that through I think sort of the sense making process and sense making is about creating meaning out of the information that you're getting

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right and by changing the me what things mean to you you start to rewire those those internal scripts and once you do that the natural byproduct of that if

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you can get everybody collectively making sense of the world and creating meaning in the same way is that they naturally have actions and those actions then then move into you know move into the world and I think this idea that we

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are so smart we can make the right choice I think is wick sometimes what gets in the way of us being successful versus we become you know we adopt new

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meaning and therefore we act upon the world in the world itself then becomes you know starts to change and I I I'm kind of interested in exploring that you know that that boundary and I don't know I know we're getting off track a little

00:34:04

Jerry from the bucket but this is one of the buckets that I would love to have is sort of this conceptual modeling philosophy really understanding the language that we use because I think that's how we're gonna develop the

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meaning amongst ourselves it makes sense of what this OGM thing is so Laura Lauren that Hank I just want to see that with the graphic I'd like another

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graphic on a page after this with what what are the things involved in say sense making or change making so it's just clear like oh just a whole long

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list of those actions and so and I also think that we could have more than one model like we could makeup models for

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say for example it's a disaster situation and it's chaos maybe there I don't know maybe maybe it's always the same process I don't know but maybe there's a different

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pattern for chaos and there is for when some people are stuck and they can't they no creativity in an earlier conversation

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with mountain crew where my mind went for the next slide kind of after after this one was zooming in on the part between sensing and sense making and and and elaborating that and then zooming in

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on the part between sense making and change making and elaborating that and I don't know if that that helps if that's in the same direction of what you're thinking Lauren or it's different but that but that would then unpack some of those issues and then as we're sitting

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here having this conversation I'm realizing one of the big important questions is who gets to make sense for the organization and typically we assign a bunch of people we hire PhDs we we

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sort of dedicate that task to people in a big piece I think of what we're talking about is changing it so that the organization becomes a sense making instrument a superorganism animal whatever you want to call it but getting

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away from the idea that there's like the sense making team over here which used to be called the corporate strategy department that melted in the 90s like most most advanced technology departments went away most corporate strategy departments went away and then

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this task got orphaned right and and partly what we're saying is we need to do a little CPR on the task of looking at the world and figuring out how to act in it I think in its simplest way and then I'll add another tiny thing which

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is and there's there's a meta conversation behind this conversation which is what degree of simplicity is needed for a model to talk to people in a corporate executive environment because the world is messy as hell and

00:36:48

there are some really lovely deep models about change making like kanavan like a bunch of others I have a thought in my brain I can share called useful frameworks and models which has you know tons of these and so exactly and so then

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how do we simplify enough that this makes sense and that this moves an organization into a new way of being and doing stuff Hank then back to Lauren yeah I mean I think Matt I was gonna ask

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you to kind of clarify one thing you made a comment in there about like us thinking that we're smart enough to to figure it out and like do you mean that that's the rock that we trip over or

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that's something that we don't believe in therefore it gets in our way where I was going is that this idea that we we take everything in and then we make our

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decision and then and then we move forward into execution right is is a kind of a failure of this idea that this is a dynamic response situation let's go to choose and to and then to move

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forward I think is is almost a fallacy in the world that is you know bucha or or B'nai right you have to actually be constantly reacting and adapting and I

00:38:06

think you know Jerry to your point about who does this I think it's everyone right the answer is the more diversity that you have in this system and the more of those points

00:38:17

of views that you you draw in you know the more capable you are gonna be of being able to make sense of things right that sense making is a is a team sport not a not an individual sport and I

00:38:29

think it also requires the latest technologies right I think for us thinking about how artificial intelligence combines with human intelligence in this type of in this type of world I think it's gonna be

00:38:43

really important to our success because our problems are so big you know the things that we're trying to solve they're only getting exponentially larger right you know the climate change

00:38:57

issue as more people get involved and you know as we grow or populate I think these things are just you know it's huge and I mean it's hard enough to change a forty thousand person organization let

00:39:09

alone you know eight nine billion people right and I think this is this is our challenge that's that I think is um urgent right now and and I think we're

00:39:22

in a wicked problem world they've always been wicked problems afoot but right now we're really facing them yeah and you know Horst Rittel is the guy who coined the term wicked problems there's other people who have other framings for it Luca and Bonnie are ways of elaborating

00:39:36

on what is wicked about them or what are the aspects of wicked right and that's kind of you know Charles has just put his finger on it entirely it's really really wicked sorry I love that

00:39:50

any other any other thoughts from anyone Lauren did you I don't want to add back to that conversation yeah so when I'm looking at these different models it

00:40:04

seems like there's already a lot developed but what I think would be amazing is to really um have a process

00:40:18

of even figuring out which model could fit which situation and how you assess like the problem and the people involved

00:40:30

and then kind of match what's going on to one of these frameworks that has already kind of been developed and using kind of like patterns pattern language

00:40:42

to to do that and work out more systematic way of defining the roles needed to do those things and below that

00:40:56

the so kind of like the archetypes and in the roles and then below that on a tertiary level like specific roles using specific tools so you can get a really

00:41:10

more organized kind of like matching going on that's what just kind of speaks to me because look at all those frameworks that you showed like there's already so much work being done you know

00:41:24

and I want her to reinvent the wheel and Lauren you know this idea like this people choose frameworks right I you know we work with an organization they say okay we want to use in a quarter

00:41:36

strategy model or we want to use this we want to use that right and and then a whole notion of that interior spinning is that those are we actually it's not about choosing anyone it's about using

00:41:47

all of them you know almost like how do we get to a place of simultaneousness of the latest of all of the latest ways that human beings think about problems you

00:42:00

know to make sense of the world and that's why I think you actually need multiple applications from multiple different vantage points in in in combination with each other because I don't I don't think this idea of whose

00:42:13

model is right is the the answer or which model is right in the situations the answer it's how are we using all of the ways that we have learned to think and see the world simultaneously so that

00:42:25

we can learn so we can so we can actually handle the complexity that's that's facing us right now so I think you're right and I think it's I think it's also we have to get we have to get

00:42:38

far more capable of allowing all of it to come in into the frame simultaneously [Music] can you want to say a little more about chris corrigan I'm gonna share my brain

00:42:51

about him in a second because I have heard of him but you want to talk about how link you just posted fits chris is a an open space facilitator does a lot of work in the nonprofit world and has a wonderful blog I put a link to one of

00:43:04

his posts here and I was just reading this yesterday about collective sense making and he suggests you know this what he's drawing on here is you know we're looking at a kovat world now and so he's these are coming from

00:43:17

participative participatory narrative inquiry in human systems dynamics to first observe the situation watch a little bit and I love that he says you know have people bring in notes about the situation so ask everybody's gonna

00:43:29

be there to bring in at least ten data objects like you know stories fine-grained tweets news items reports anything and then have them share that and look for patterns and you know put

00:43:42

them on post-its and start to cluster them together and then say okay you know what's what's actually going on here what are we noticing in general I love these questions in general I noticed this in general I noticed this but

00:43:55

contradictions on the other hand I notice this but there's also this and then I'm really surprised about this and I wonder about that so these these questions I find really useful in groups to tease out and help to

00:44:08

create a space where people can let go of their I have the right perspective and really sit with that's interesting you know I hadn't considered it from that perspective before and then moving through a process to kind of shake that

00:44:21

out into a space where we can say now we have a sense of what this means how are we gonna use it to further our aims so I just switched in my brain to the current state of the corona virus pandemic

00:44:33

because I think that we are enacting in real time the thing we're talking about which is one of the buckets we need to frame up in how to organize OGM so so this is the place where I and and the

00:44:46

brain that I'm using the tool that I'm using is not very collaborative and it's just me but this is where I put what I'm sensing right now about this situation so you know a vaccine is kind of a long shot a few countries reacted well US

00:44:58

recklessness is turning into a major spike we are actually in the middle of five crises which came from Anan Giri Dardis had a really nice sort of he had a really nice video if anybody knows anand he's really worth

00:45:11

listening to anyway this mode of synthesizing is what I'd love for us to be able to do together right in whatever tools we prefer using whatever models

00:45:24

make sense for the situation and the more we can increase our model literacy the more we could increase the reliability of the data that we're using and sharing and the more that we can use these in a way that doesn't just confuse the hell out of everybody in sensible

00:45:37

important conversations the closer we get to something good that is a form of collaborative sense making that make sense yeah and in the middle of that we need

00:45:50

to take pauses we need to step outside and sit in the grass we need to talk to each other over a glass of wine we need to like like all these other things that will allow us to soak in what was said

00:46:03

where we are what's happening because it's really easy to get into overwhelm it's really easy to get depressed by the variety of things going on but the good news is that it costs nothing these days

00:46:16

to hear from the world's experts to synthesize to share information but like like the cost about communicating the cost of authoring is your time mostly the tools are cheap etc

00:46:28

so so yeah how do we do that and what and what do we call is this the sense making Gil is this I mean is that what this is and and that sounds great I love

00:46:42

it now I hear more about the guild stuff other other anybody with sorts about this so when I'm hearing Jerry just to be able to get a sense of it from what

00:46:55

I'm looking at is that there is an overall goal towards giving everyone the opportunity here to being able to contribute to as sensing organisms to be

00:47:10

able to bring in their individual points to be able to bring towards a larger theme much like how when you showed Co vid you showed all of your even independent observations and the pieces

00:47:22

that you brought together with the brain so that I can better understand is there a theme other than a sense of making about sense making that we would as

00:47:35

individuals be able to bring and are we sending all of those individual points to you directly or a week sending them to the website are you sending them to a portal well um so good question Edward

00:47:47

so first there's a several layers to what you're asking and one is as we look to an organization that might be wanting to use OGM as a platform and as a set of services and so forth who is busy making

00:48:00

sense of things and I think that what I said earlier is has political implications I mean I believe strongly in workplace democracy I believe in trusting your employees and what that means is allowing many many people

00:48:12

whoever is gifted or inspired to do so to be modeling suggesting build you know shaping the narratives that occupy the rest of us and then everybody doesn't have to do this because everybody's got

00:48:24

lots of jobs to do and you know but but the more we can share out the narrows the more Joe Bob can say I like Sally's narrative on X and included into it explanation of why we should do

00:48:36

something some way your your your discussions become much more rich and robust as you move through reality trying to make changes in the model that Matt showed earlier but then practically

00:48:48

as we're doing our work here part of the reason why I said why there's a LinkedIn group for OG my there's a mailing list Rho G my there's a medium channel for GM and why o GM is trying to build up something patch

00:49:01

together from open-source and other kinds of tools that exist today and then improve them is that I don't certainly want to be the bottleneck for all these ideas I want us to find our way to the tools that we like to express with maybe

00:49:13

it's shooting YouTube screencast videos maybe it's creating animations like Nikki case does I don't know but and then sharing them broadly with the world so that will be improved the conversation in ways that all of us can

00:49:27

catch and see which generally means use a hashtag or post it back someplace more central for us so that we can see it but I'm really interested in like right now we're having kind of an inside conversation because I'm going to post

00:49:39

this video on YouTube but eight people are going to watch it we're just talking to ourselves right here but if we were to synthesize some of what we did here and post it on LinkedIn or on medium and then if each of us were to say hey

00:49:50

tweet tweet retweet you know I'm fired broadcast then a couple thousand people would be in the conversation and we would be in conversation with the dozens and dozens and dozens of people that each of us already follows today right

00:50:04

as Ken just showed us you know here's a person who has here's chris corrigan who has interesting thoughts and I have you know I had obviously followed the Chris for a while and had a bunch of his posts already in my brain each of which are

00:50:16

connected into what those topics were about so that's that's kind of modeling what's going on Matt maybe I want to step back because Edward I think I think

00:50:28

you asked a really interesting question and then Jerry you went to some very kind of tangible artifacts in in your response to that question and maybe I'll

00:50:40

go to the imagination space here the dream space for just a second which is um I as an as an individual in this world each of you as individuals in this

00:50:55

world are constantly processing what's going on everybody is right and they're running through they're running through this thing called you know our brain and we have scripts and we have models and

00:51:09

we have frameworks and lenses and all that kind of stuff and when you know and I'm looking at like how somebody mentioned something on this call and the chat just like blows up and then all of

00:51:20

this all of this other stuff which comes from human knowledge that's been created all of a sudden flows into this and you know to be able to click on all of these things and to learn all these things

00:51:32

that it's it's it takes time and it's difficult right for me as a human being to to even absorb that information and I guess the the the dream space part of me

00:51:46

goes what if there's a day where when I have a thought and I'm engaging in thought that you guys are all there in

00:51:57

in in my consciousness that the world is there in my consciousness that that people who have already made sense of certain things that I'm attempting to make sense of become transparent to me

00:52:10

right and and then when I want to articulate those thoughts that there are there are vehicles for me to do that that are really really easy right and so so so things are things that you need

00:52:23

when you need them to make sense of the world in a more intelligent way or it at the level that's required to comprehend what we're dealing with come into the

00:52:34

frame when you need them right and so I'm wondering how this conversation can be continuous without it being synchronous and that's the that's the

00:52:51

thing that I don't I mean I don't think we've invented it yet I mean and we we can think about how we're participating in today's system but I also think there's like I'd go back to this idea

00:53:04

that so many people have thought things before I have that I don't have access to and I will never find because the minute I go to the Google machine

00:53:17

I get 27 ads from consultants who want to sell me their services or 27 ads from you know the AI machine trying to affect the way that I you know for me to consume or buy sits up you know and I'm

00:53:30

not trying to go there but we have we have we have we have sniped ourselves from the continuation of human knowledge and therefore we're not being able to apply it to our problems and and our

00:53:44

problems are only getting bigger so that's the that's the dream for me and I don't know what that looks like Matt I love that and I think you know that I wrote a series of things called snip about the financial system so exactly

00:53:56

that Charles hi thank you knowledge gardening comes to mind and sort of collective bookmarking and Diigo hypothesis and stuff that's something we

00:54:10

do now we just have to sort of agree on one or more places and ways to do that another term concept that comes to mind is the PLN or personal learning network

00:54:24

or personal learning environment ple different names for sort of what are our own personal Suites combination toolkit and I think within 30 seconds or some of

00:54:36

this a little more or less we could go around actually quickly take a kind of survey or you know understand who is really using what who loves what for what reasons and and you know each of us

00:54:50

has a special combination that works and we know and it's fluid and not hopefully and so forth and I think there we can already start to get more interoperable and it's also my goal to set up a call a

00:55:03

zoom session separate from our regular Thursday calls to contrast a series of tools around a single topic and Jean and I have been collaborating on that I'm not I need to sort of ramp that up stuff you actually sort of book the

00:55:17

Colin and go do that we can also it would be also nice to sort of share our tool suites or preferences in some more persistent way you know and use our tools and figure out what that looks like so we also have

00:55:30

a fledgling website where we could put membership pages we may want to use something like notion or coda or Rome because these are tools that are kind of in the waters and there are people I'm going to invite in now into the

00:55:42

conversation who are doing Rome like and tools themselves who who own you know their own their own platforms and stuff like that Lauren so I was just thinking

00:55:55

say for example if among us in between us we could bring two thousand people into the conversation who Twitter Facebook whatever and I was also

00:56:08

thinking uh with my experience with other groups leads me to want to quickly bring this into practice instead of

00:56:23

theory because I think that it will just will be faster in terms of our development and actually like finding the tools to meet what we're trying to

00:56:37

do and I think that one thing that could be super fun is to kind of attack really relevant social issues like race like I

00:56:52

just heard this woman talking about white fragility and how it's like impossible to have a race conversation with white people cuz we don't we can't

00:57:04

even deal with our whiteness and so producing like crazy like maybe um like a guide for like how to avoid like

00:57:15

a crappy conversation about race and like all the things that you know white people say that it's like black people are like Oh God like a but like actually like producing using

00:57:29

these kind of like sense making things with this super interesting edgy topics that are actually interesting that produce helpful system level views of

00:57:41

things like using all of our talents to really like produce like helpful stuff for these you know topics that are in the news and you know stuff like that

00:57:54

that you know because that's where our hearts are and to show that and to kind of that brings we can more easily bring diverse voices into the conversation who

00:58:06

normally wouldn't be included and show them our sense making tool and also get kind of feedback on so it could be fun that way so Lauren you're inspiring me

00:58:18

you're inspiring me to suggest something Olivia cause to you in a second Charles you're inspiring me it's just something inspired by yarn-bombing which is like we could choose somebody who just said something really

00:58:30

interesting and then four of us could say oh I this really has juice for me and we could create different manifestations of what they said and then just go send it to them or post them and and retweet around them and say hey we love what you

00:58:43

said we've tried to tell that story in different ways using different tools or something like that and just repeat that as a game for a few stuff for a few sessions like pick pick a half-dozen different blog posts or interesting

00:58:56

juicy things and then riff on them several of us not the same people but whoever jumps up and goes oh that sounds really cool and just go do that a couple times does that sound like fun anybody well like white fragility right if

00:59:13

somebody has a post on white fragility something really interesting we could jump in and say you know how about how about expressing it this way here's what I think it means here's where it comes from or it could be something about strategic planning or it could be

00:59:26

something else but but different of us participating in a GM would riff on it in different ways well it is and it's almost like we build the network

00:59:39

and we have to build a network of people who are who are practicing sense making and and and then what we do is we ping that network at any given time and would say here is something we need to make

00:59:51

sense of and it could be it could be a problem one of us is dealing with it could be a topic it could be anything and then and then we produce ODM studios here's how we're making sense of this

01:00:05

thing right and I see smiles and I don't know if it's because of Kevin um and I want to go to Charles but I want to say hi to Kevin and Judy who just turn the call I was I was gonna offer something that was was gonna be a lot more off the

01:00:18

world and out there but then Jerry yarn-bombing so Lauren this is this possibly the moment for the sock puppets lately through it all that that might

01:00:34

you know with the different voices and stuff but maybe so Jerry I mean and everyone like Lauren and I would love to have fun and we planned a lot of things that don't all happen but one of the things we talked about is making videos

01:00:47

with sock puppets so yeah we think we think sock puppets to really allow a lot of expression and we could all have sock

01:01:03

puppets and then act things out and then just make like super quirky videos kind of acting out what happens and it can

01:01:17

like actually puppetry is a really deep and old methodology of social fatigue and no mocking power and this came after

01:01:32

my meeting just to give it even more context it kind of relates maybe ultimately or in some ways but we've been brewing since last year a new kind

01:01:46

of court for the internet and so the concept came out of questions around powdered wigs and really amping up the drama and the snark

01:01:58

and so yeah let's see I think we could all have have some fun there there's something very playful about about that which is which is nice Kevin did you want to jump in yeah I booked a

01:02:11

couple years ago with the UN one with some finger puppets there was Remy talk and Elinor Ostrom and about the UN Development Programme was well received by the table and other

01:02:26

people there was a critique which there was anyway but it was provocative it was it was it and it draws attention yeah yeah voices in the room and there's

01:02:41

there's a role for the court the court jester uh often had that leeway that you know in the court the court jester could say things that nobody else was gonna utter and and you know they risked

01:02:53

getting their head cut off because some of these things were actually like really strong critiques but but they had license and that's that's really interesting my first boss in the world my first job in the world was at Mobil Oil Corporation before it was Exxon

01:03:06

Mobil and my boss was the youngest company commander in Vietnam he was a short laugh Virginian who is still alive and kickin and having a great time and he had license from the bosses so whenever somebody would retire he would

01:03:19

we would put on kind of a roast of the retiree and he would contact their spouse and get a whole bunch of pictures and then doctor them up by sending them down to the graphics department to do art on and then shoot again on the sides

01:03:30

anyway stuff we would do today with like snapchat and whatnot right but but he was sort of the court jester in that department and it was really interesting to watch him use that license and so how

01:03:46

might we be warmly provocative without being disruptive because there's a there's a short line between jester and troll right and what does that look like well I think you know and I think this

01:04:01

is this idea of story threading is at that boundary layer of of when you start to create meaning how you express that meaning into the world so that it it has changed and I think this you know I think this idea of sort

01:04:15

of a branded puppet theater that is creating really interesting commentary on the commentary that is sort of being propagated in the world as that's kind

01:04:28

of a it's a fascinating idea and I think this is where as we start to think about how we structure this thing there again I go back to that that framework which

01:04:40

is how do we where do we brick how do we bring in a lot of information and where do we bring that how do people access that information and that we all can process it and then and then what do we

01:04:52

turn it into and who's helping us turn in good luck so that it actually has impact on the world so it changes you know what is into you know what will be right or what becomes and I think we

01:05:06

need we need to kind of isolate these different areas and start to build the skills and tools and capabilities to do that because I think we you know everybody moves to this port and

01:05:19

everybody moves at this point I think we're gonna miss I think we need to break it down again going back to that idea of the buckets of work and say where where do we want to put energy and do one key point energy where because if

01:05:30

we're not drawing in all of this stuff we don't have the raw material needed and right and so that's one of the problems but if we also don't have the the interesting tools like the puppet

01:05:43

theater and those things to be able to express what we making sense of and to be able to communicate to a world that is quite honestly overwhelmed with you know the torrent of information like

01:05:55

we're gonna miss - so I think I think we have you know quite a bit of problems to solve and dividing and conquering is probably a good thing which is part of the goal of this call and we've gotten mostly through the call and I think we've identified one bucket sort of

01:06:08

where where this conversation is kind of stayed so next next week let's rent leather rinse repeat and see if we can't elaborate more different kinds of buckets because I think there are a series of really interesting

01:06:22

conversations to have to figure out how a GM becomes a thing and builds its builds itself out as we use it because I love the idea of you know fire aim ready actually I own fire aimed comm I think

01:06:33

as long ago I coined the phrase fire aim never quite ready hmm which means the idea that you know ready aim fire is the is the usual sequence we're never gonna be ready we need to go do something you hope you don't hit

01:06:46

anybody and you try not to but then you have to correct and aiming is correcting aiming is is sort of feedback in and I've never done anything with the website and we could and easily do that but I I'm getting the feeling maybe

01:06:58

there's a and making it a guild might make it too official but in the chat I'm saying like is there a jester guild or a coyote guild or a trickster Gil that's part of OGM and anybody who feels like playing these games kind of whether it's

01:07:10

sock puppet theater around around really important issues using sophisticated models for example I mean we could have sock puppets doing the narrative and we can have a brilliant Kumu systems map behind it and I think the contrast is

01:07:23

really really interesting exactly yes and and if we riff on that with different tools and different approaches and different humorous styles and even

01:07:39

parodies of you know people who are doing normal stuff in the world because puppets can do pause the stuff then in the trickster and the puppet are really lovely and evocative things to bring

01:07:52

into this conversation so Lauren thank you Charles thank you I think that that it opens a bunch of doors to serious play that are important for what we're doing because if this turns into if the

01:08:05

brain software we're a database app that said you know now enter data into these six fields and you can create a new node and you're in your map I would never abused it the brain is playful and open to use for me in a way

01:08:18

that allowed me to go invent my own cliches my own riffs and and it's sort of just expressive enough that I was able to do things that humored me had it been you know 20 people in a

01:08:30

corporation who had been told to go fill out forms in a day bass I would have been out of there like I would have been very hard to motivate to go do this unless the dynamics of the group were extraordinary yeah deadly fun I like that in serious

01:08:43

play exactly people let people including kids love serious fun serious fun is a great way to go any other thoughts on this as we're as we're on the subject tyranny guilt and boundaries and Beyond

01:08:58

Boundaries anything that I can I think that's right I think maybe the the idea of guilds and and des Bradley on my team joined here and one of the things that

01:09:11

he introduced is one of the sessions is this idea of these different and lore and I think you use this as well these ideas of archetypes right and how do we build out various archetypes you know

01:09:23

you so you have the shaman archetype you have you know you have the the engineer archetype you of the artist archetype you have the coyote archetype like like I think this idea of being able to move in and out of these archetypes and maybe

01:09:37

Kevin Guild is the wrong it gives the wrong word but maybe we have to reinvent what what that even means but to be able to adopt these different archetypes and play in that space because I think we

01:09:52

need all of those Minds working together right yeah you know if I Dylan says to live outside the law you must be honest

01:10:02

yeah troops I'm also like I wonder I want to ask you guys how quickly do we try to tackle the technology platform

01:10:19

problem right you know we've been debating do we cobble together things and just you what readily available and start behaving in this way or do we you

01:10:32

know or do we have to actually be inventing you know be inventing these this technology platform and it like well I think of really simple things like you know there's sometimes I'm

01:10:46

thinking about over boy I want a phone a friend it would be interesting if there was a 1-800 number and you call and you ask the question and all of a sudden you know the right person gets pinged to answer that

01:10:59

question or the right knowledge object it's broaden to you know you know brought to you and how do we make this now it's really accessible and broad but I mean I think like like simplicity is

01:11:10

really or even just a text message where you just write a text message saying does anybody know any of this and it kind of comes to you really instantaneous cuz I think that's the part that's gonna make this thing interesting and successful is you can

01:11:23

ask it anything and if you get real answers not so you you just summarized 30 years of critique of knowledge management where it was almost trying to fill out forms and databases so that

01:11:36

somebody could do search against a big database of cases or something like that maybe with a little AI and what really works is hey you need to talk to Bob and Sally right now and then some ability to

01:11:47

Roush like magic generate that conversation but then and this is just my critique but then wouldn't it be cool if Bob and Sally could hand you big chunks of their wisdom in some shorthand form and some crystallized you know not

01:12:01

a tied pod but rather you know some some interesting indras web pearl in the net that allows you them to harness it use it and then ask a couple much more intelligent questions of them to implement their their thinking better or

01:12:14

represent it better or whatever and then other people could riff on it and so forth so part of the problem is we're finally getting to the point where it's like hey it'd be great if you talk with these three people which is what knowledge management should always been about but now you have to ingest what

01:12:28

each of those two people are thinking and how they think and what their what they've got and that's hard because we don't have tools to share them with each other and we are not busy trying to synthesize them with and for each other and and ant right so if we were all

01:12:41

doing a bit more of that work this gets easier and I think the the leverage in this is is pretty immense one thing I want to point out is that there's a underlying current of every what everybody is saying about talking

01:12:56

to other people so there's this issue of communication and it's not like some database queries where you can just type in a string and then get back a whole bunch of stuff sometimes it takes a whole bunch of a whole bunch of talking to other people

01:13:07

in order to determine what the actual content is and then proceed on from there and then this is part of the reason it's been so hard to encapsulate in the km system it's because it's actually not a give me this it's listen

01:13:21

listen listen this is unless an oh that's what's going on and and there's hardly a camp system out there that lets you put in the nuances of what actually happened in the situation and mostly what happens in this situation won't carry over into this one but there's a

01:13:33

bunch of insights from here that if you if you heard them you could change everybody's life over here Judy to you well it was a combination of wanting to rip a little bit on the continuous learning dimension because that's what

01:13:46

happens and is so energizing in these conversations and then tying that back to the graphic aspect because I remember doing a paper once on the gesture as the agent of truth and drama and somehow if

01:14:00

we could do virtual cartoons and just keep them moving and send those out in some fashion to the world invite others to riff on the same that could get

01:14:12

pretty exciting I think that the technology of actually executing the mind is non-trivial you can do it but it takes a lot of discipline and so I've been struggling with how we actually

01:14:25

engage people at the energy and quickness that we want in connecting a lot of people you said the continuous

01:14:38

learning and I miss the last word oh well the notion of continuous learning in the network itself yeah and whether you can actually do it with OGM itself as the technology platform or what other

01:14:53

strings or threads we need to do that which is what you've been talking about on the part of the call I missed I'm sure but if we can figure out a way to make that work then I think we'd be

01:15:06

ahead of the game because I'm a little nervous about how readily the world will embrace jumping into the mine yeah you

01:15:19

know and I think this is maybe where the Guild's do come into into play right this idea of like I I think back to these days where you walked into the Citadel and you would ask a question of

01:15:32

the person who sort of owned the library and they would be they knew Audrey book in that in that room and they were able to to sort of draw on it and and sort of pull from that text now you're gonna need some you're gonna need some human

01:15:46

intervention here as well of and people who want all they want to do is to be keepers of the knowledge and you know Anna dearie I mean I think you're one of these individuals where I know if I ever

01:15:58

ask you anything you can because of your knowledge management personal knowledge management you can draw on so many things right um it's but you also Judith to where you

01:16:10

were going is you we probably need people who are we're literally just listening to these conversations and taking snippets and starting to assemble them and just just capturing what's

01:16:23

going on because I can capture and I can think but I can't capture and think at the same time right there little really I can't and I can't capture think and write or type at the same time so it's like I can engage verbally or I can

01:16:36

engage in the chat but if I get into the chat that I'm not fully engaged in the dialogue and so that dimensionality of communication is something that might be the subject of another conversation well

01:16:49

in and I will say that we could collect the next we build a lot of kit we've built a lot of capability of the kind of these story threader people right whether they're the graphic facilitation or whether the documentaries or whether

01:17:02

they you know our podcasters are those sorts of you know things and I think that's something that we want to bring in here and just say take everything we're saying and create with it right and that's where yeah Sir Charles no no

01:17:15

I didn't what go ahead if you want to finish no no I I was I was running out of steam and I saw your hand so I want to hear what no no I I I hope this is not too

01:17:25

much off track but I think I love all of that by the way and I'm totally with it and now I might have just lost my thought it was something about oh oh

01:17:40

yeah this is an observation which I don't know if this is useful or not but I just had this realization of a kind that in a particular environment situation with the synchronous

01:17:52

conversation face to face as best we can these days and all these wonderful zoomy ways so Judith what you were just describing basically highlights the kind

01:18:06

of very organic hopefully flowing and hopefully like functional like phasing in and out of synchronous and asynchronous in a kind

01:18:19

of literal way in terms of the attention on the flow of the thread that's actually being spoken but then there's this other thread there's this multiple that's the dimensionality that I just got I heard it in terms of synchronous

01:18:31

and asynchronous within each of us within the conversation so I hope that's useful in some way I think it's very useful because there's this boundary in the old world of computer aided collaborative work or whatever these

01:18:44

things were called would you know later got called group we're now social media plus plus plus there were these categories like synchronous and asynchronous were different things and you use different tools for them when in fact we need to be picking up the same

01:18:56

conversation and then elaborating on it and and one of the things that happen to like about the rain is that I can bring it it I can drag it into a conversation like this unfortunately I have to take over the screen we don't all have multiple screens right I can't be

01:19:08

riffing on things on the side without interrupting a lot so there's no nuance to it whatsoever but I can add to a conversation or try to as we're moving and then in between conversations I'm every day all the time busy curating this thing so that's one

01:19:21

of the reasons I adore it is that it works in both modes it's not it's not an either/or kind of tool but how do we pick more tools that allow us to graceful we move things ahead without reinventing them all the time because one of the

01:19:34

things that I don't like about almost all the other mind mapping tools is that when you run out of room on the virtual page you have to enter the page off and start a new mind map and then you're never gonna find that old my map unless you're insanely discipline tonight I've

01:19:47

met very few mind mappers who know where the five thousand mind knocks they've done all well and good Charles would that be describing you okay good is

01:20:02

there a - and anal retentive because I feel the same way let's go to cafeteria that's a that's a fundamental problem with any kind of knowledge bases being AFP access what's the knowledge in there

01:20:15

exactly exactly Kevin so as I look at this you know I'm thinking of you know obviously comic book analogies and you know I'm thinking of Charles in the x-men and he knew when

01:20:27

it was kinda thin in the Wolverine a quality problem and when it's time to send in somebody who has a laser vision or whatever and I think for this one work you need some kind of switchboard

01:20:39

that knows when it's time for Wolverine when it's time for whatever it's like what I'm looking at right now broadly is independent local economy that works in a place across race and class and so I

01:20:51

have tons of energy for that I'm both talking to experts that have turns it to him for naive newbie because nobody's figured this part out and there are some things that are working and things that I wasn't into a regenerative agriculture

01:21:04

year so ago I'm not into this it's going to be slowly you got to move at the pace of hospital purchasing so and so you know if you want to ask me a question on that I will give you a bunch of time and

01:21:17

i will give it much in terms of newbies and i have experts that i'm talking to so it's kind of like my beat you know you guys figure out what everybody's beat is if you imagine this a city room with experts or whatever and you know for me right now it's the interdependent

01:21:30

and you know local economy and i think to make this work you got to ask me or other people the question is that we really want to know more about that I know a lot of that but I want to want to know a lot more about

01:21:44

there's a conflict or a synergy opportunity in the difference between knowledge acquisition and organization and creativity that rifts off the knowledge points and I don't that that

01:21:56

could be an interesting subject for a future call because the generative energy of this group talking things through is very powerful because you have a lot of creative thoughts getting connected in different new ways that

01:22:09

lead us in new directions and that's a different dimension than my current understanding of the brain per se so we're getting three-dimensional and

01:22:20

changing Judith I completely completely agree with you and and it is the generative power Minds coming together in the right and I'm wondering if there

01:22:35

isn't almost like there's like this there's this place that we're all capturing our knowledge and how do we capture knowledge in a way that we personally can access it but then we can

01:22:48

also you know release the api's to other people so that they can access that knowledge but then there's also on top of it is almost like the conversation and I'm wondering like what would happen

01:23:00

if we had you know lured to your point 2,000 people that are in our network and this channel is always open and people come and go like I'm noticing you know you you showed up after Hamilton left

01:23:15

and you know Kevin came in and some of us are still here and some people left but what if it was just open and people are coming in and coming out and and that's just part of the that's just part of the rhythm of you know the way that

01:23:29

we work in in Kevin the concerns that you have you bring to this table and everyone just brings what they bring and the conversation either will go in a direction that's useful for you or not

01:23:41

and then people are coming in it's almost like a an ongoing unconference right 24/7 around the globe and and we just invite more people in

01:23:53

as long as we keep our eye on the ball with the with the documentation the repository the transcriptions and all that stuff then that's all great but let let let it flow let it roll

01:24:07

fill up the drives you know that I dealt with in strategic planning in other places the conflict between ideation and execution and how do you bridge that jump in terms of the next stage of

01:24:21

movement by the group to doing something about something and so I think again that's a rich topic for a lot more discussion and a lot of ideation Lauren

01:24:32

you want to give a yeah be a great idea I am I I just out I really am excited about this idea of like a doing call and I

01:24:46

want to post that where is totally like jump in chaos random people and let's make sense in like crazy like a an

01:24:58

issue that's super interesting and just like inviting kind of sense makers and random people who are affected by the situation to come together and just like

01:25:12

use all these tools to try to figure stuff out but you basically use the tools whatever fits the situation and

01:25:23

then I think that what we can do is then dissect that and be like okay how how can you actually what happened how could

01:25:38

it have been better and what can we do like how can we put this in not like an organized framework so next time it's even more organized but that way we can have like fun we can have an outlet for

01:25:52

spreading what we do that people are actually interested in because you know I'm fixing corporate problems zero people are interested in tweeting about this

01:26:05

[Laughter] we do if we like jump in the mix with some like social issues that are interesting and then provide these tools that we're working on to give it like

01:26:17

not only for it to be extremely frivolous but it for it to be extremely serious at the same time I'm just super excited about that possibility I love the combo and we're getting up on

01:26:30

the end of our call time together for today's call and one thing occurs to me is that this moment has caused a lot of large corporations to try to figure out what their meaning or purpose is like

01:26:42

what on earth does that mean how is this going to work what the hell nobody taught me about meaning and purpose in b-school right and it's never been in my pay cop package and and and and like there's

01:26:55

there's all the all these problems we could tackle a question like that with sock puppets with gestures with poetry where we could we could sort of work the boundary between the dream space and the think

01:27:07

space we could manifest it in a bunch of however many ways anybody's inspired to do we could put up a contest that says hey here's six riffs we created anybody else go riff on this and see what see

01:27:19

what shows up right but but corporations executive suites search for meaning and purpose is a serious thing right now and a lot of them a lot of them are glue ful

01:27:31

and many of them are clueless and they could they would love to hunt for a clue and they don't want to miss the clue train and I'm friends with the founders of the writers the food train book we can bring them into this conversation as

01:27:44

well because they're really good at expressing these sorts of things yeah there's a big piece of that that purpose and that fits with the visioning piece of corporations and some corporations have done that better than others in

01:27:57

terms of not trying to look at externals to see a path but to look at visions of where things need to go and so there might be a riff that we could do around

01:28:09

visioning that would engage that deeper thought will stop because if you separate the vision from the action and do them discreetly differently you get different results and we're crossing over into what I think is the

01:28:22

space of a different bucket or guild which is more the philosophical approaches of OGN and I think it's a different girl but I'm not sure but it feels like there's a whole bunch of really interesting meaty yet

01:28:34

philosophical sounding conversations to have about exactly this like how does change happen and how does this all work and why are we here and so forth which needs to be permeable and connected to the conversation about expressive tools

01:28:47

and how do we make up it overlays so that it's a convincing story and mean making and that and the gesture patrol and I'm not sure part of why I am convening these conversations is to figure out how do how do we sort those

01:29:00

things out so that they work together so that everybody isn't in every conversation because we don't have that kind of time and everybody is applying their joy and energy in the place where its biggest payoff for them and for the

01:29:12

group and Lauren that looks like you are dying to answer that question no oh you were leaning in going well I have a comment because I think that there's a big difference between visioning and a

01:29:25

philosophical sense and ideation in terms of the future state and so love us to spend some time on ideation because that can be graphic it can be a lot of different things and and it can have an

01:29:37

action vector but you don't have to define the vector until you get the actual ideas that you want to pursue and you have Justin words described a graphic that Matt could share it on the screen at the beginning of the call when you weren't here yet you have just

01:29:49

described that graphic okay sorry I missed it great it'll be in the recording which I'll send out today so same time next week and in between happy to suggest and hold a different call Jean and I have

01:30:02

conspired to set up a couple calls but I'll figure out how to get those announcements into the room and we'll go from there any any closing thoughts as we wrap today's call just that I I think

01:30:15

it's essential that we bring people who are curious about the documentation side and really are experts there in into this and to allow them to listen and to

01:30:28

produce you know almost to produce the material that we generate right I think it's very difficult to do you know to do both simultaneously and I think we need that that skill set in the room and

01:30:43

now I'll work on I'll work on that I've got I gotta get some people convinced that they need to be here um partly also we just need to invite into the group people who love doing that and would love who would love the content of this

01:30:55

and who have no other reason than to to be involved in stuff that has you know meaning and purpose to them and express it so exactly let's find those humans who Leon I think you have the last word

01:31:07

go ahead alright I mentioned earlier that I've been doing a survey on knowledge systems and there's a visualization I'll have that later this month I thought it might be useful to send that around because this is a topic I've been

01:31:20

tracking for the last 20 years on systems as complex as the space shuttle and also trying to bring in popular concepts such as Ben or D report awesome

01:31:32

and and and Minority Report planted in many people's ideas the heads the idea that there's this manipulable Baba and Kevin Kelly and a bunch of other people were hired as consultants to Minority Report and they're friends of our

01:31:45

network so we can wander in that territory and we can do it we have connections in to places like Pixar and and whatnot and and I was having a conversation last year about some of the stuff in which he mentioned you know

01:31:57

uploading your brain and he had connections into some of the people who were busy at the forefront of that research so we can kind of go lots of interesting places last word to you just

01:32:11

to quickly ask again about two other transcripts and I can't remember do you include those in the emails that I put in the I put in the chat that I'm attaching them to the emails but I should also which I have not been doing

01:32:22

drop them in our common Google Drive okay because those of us who use are we could also have a group there that's accessible you can share it sort of open link there might be a nice way to do it

01:32:34

just so if they're all in one place that's great yeah if there were one place anybody can do something with them that they want cool namaste

01:32:44

I'm gonna stay right here yeah as we're under lockdown but thank you really appreciate this conversation