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in 1964 Granada television brought together a group of seven year-olds we have followed their lives every 7 years I don't wanna keep still you know don't
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wait for nobody they've talked about their dreams their ambitions if I like to get into politics and their fears for the future life is what happens while you waiting for
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something else I don't think life is there to be aggressive if I recognized it while you got it that's how you become the person you are it's a picture of how any person how they change give me a child until he is
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seven and I will give you the man Tony was brought up in the East End of London
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[Music] at 14 he was already an apprentice at Tommy Gosling's racing staple an Epson at 15 he'd left school this is a photo
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finish when I rode at Newbury I'm the one with a white cap I was beating the lymph enough a third and then a photo finish do you regret not making it well I want to give my white arm at the time to
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become a jockey but now wasn't good enough my greatest fulfillment in life when are when I wrote at Kempton in the same ways as Leicester bigger trayless down boy
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boy what will you do if you don't make it as a jockey if I know I couldn't be one I can't resign what do you think you would do then
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Laurent taxes a 21 he was on the knowledge and by 28 he owned his own cab arguably story which happened
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the doorman called me up and it was Buzz Aldrin the spaceman we drove out the forecourt of the hotel and a cab pulled up and taxi driver said can you get his autograph so I earned it and say mr.
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Audrey I said can I have your autograph please and the cabbie said no I don't want ezel graph I want your 42 Tony had
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left the East End and moved the family to Woodford in Essex well I think we overspent about um no a colossal man thousands at 49 they taken out a second
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mortgage on the London house and put the money into a holiday home in Spain so it's seven years since we did this it's flung gone Michael just gone what's life
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been like since we did 56 up well when we had our last interview remember I was in Spain and I was looking for a business just sort of set up from here there's gonna be all commercial units
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here my intentions would be just turning one of these units into a sports bar did you have financial difficulties there was no money out there all the businesses started to close al dia come
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along through a brand new supermarket there so my aspiration and dreams went out the window and people get coming back from the dare dream also evaporate in an a come back so my wife and I we decided to pack up
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and come back and sell our house and consolidate our finances I wished I was still there and I wished it was a vibrancy which I could have had an input in because I would have loved to have
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maintained my property idea it was a dream come true from the boy in the buildings you must understand I'm only a cabbie have you got a girlfriend nope would you like to have a girlfriend
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nope you understand for its final freedom and forget oh yeah if I let you use your own discrimination I mean this one I tried
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to do the flip I can't forget and why did you fall in love with it don't know sometimes I don't I are standing I'm not proud at all to say this situations
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Eliza I have a bad regretful behaviour various times I own Debbie everything
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because she stuck by me and then at the end of it I still love her so and that's the reason why so is this a tough time
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for cavies ooh the movin uber and all these other companies trying to sort of take a piece of the cake they're coming in and they're getting licenses willy-nilly is there a war going on
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between that the cab is an uber what they're down to the cab trade 250 year old history I cannot stress enough so all the cab is 4,000 of us got our
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placards we march through Downing Street on a demonstration and I for one will be there a day beating my drum for a black
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taxi trade how much have you lost in year these salaries I would certainly say a third which is a big kick in the rear and it's really awful
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and what about Deb is she being hit by it of course we've all been hit by it that's why I'm back in Essex now come on Daisy come on nobody head on that Oh lovely
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really it was me I decided that want you to move from where we used to live and I come up here one day and this one was up for sale and then he came up here and he
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saw the Aussies out here and he fell in love with it you got me fifty years old to live here you got a lot of elderly people but they were all Excel EastEnders and they're all sort of like you know traditional
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EastEnders it's all florists Randy got a little pop up the road forgot there you can get pie I to walk down if you want nature is the winner for me you know come out at night
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I see Fox he's running about reindeers of one o'clock in the morning after I'm done I know it's working my cat and life couldn't be better really living up here how is life going for you two in your
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marriage solid what you said a moment yeah yeah if I overcome a lot of ups and downs but who done you noticed a change
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in each other not really he's never changed as a bi seems to me more grown-up more mature and everything
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yeah but now I mean he's what he is and nothing's gonna change him there's only one ambition and really our our baby salmon if I see my baby son that in my
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ambition fulfilled no one knows it only you know Debbie and Tony have three children Niki Jody and Perry Niki as you know he
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was a French polisher which is a dying trade in in England so we funded him mean there beyond the knowledge I couldn't ask for more to be more proud for when he got his badge it was
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it was a gift from God for what happened Perry's a college at the moment try need to be a TI teacher's assistant because she wants to a job that fits in with her
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schools that whoever wins gets a packet of sweets ugly we've got six grandchildren the three young kids Perry's kids my youngest daughter quick
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if he goes you got a father [Music] [Laughter] Jodi still trying to find our way in life she's 47 now that's not been too
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good for its present time Debbie and I do everything we can't get her back on her feet and when you visually see
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happening you can see the change in attitude you can see the change in appearance it's not a nice place to be watching your daughter struggle judy has
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a daughter Tony Debbie and I brought up solely all I can say is she's turned out beautiful we're very proud it's home me she said
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so I overcome a lot in her life but she's doing well you know all the girls and all the kids are going she works hard in the pub she says no money so own independence and own it on
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young shoulders Michael she's very very efficient I'm into golf sir sighs who the guys you play with they're mostly publicans or taxi drivers you know who has end up in out of a small bet it's
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good right sure sure okay 60 on the meter so how is your health these days I've got DVT which is
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defined from bosun the condition from family from our brother my sister we've all been affected by DVT and I'm on wool free now for the rest of my life because I did have a pulmonary embolism
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which I had a blockage and it went to my lung if you would have gone to my brain or my heart then I wouldn't be Avenue Singh if you move you now nice one that's seen a more health conscious than
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I've ever been really and we're anchors you it not shot played well I accept that that's fair enough there I mean I'll give you that one but I don't smoke and I don't drink em trust
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me I exercise most of all I don't do any well they call it you know I put that's machinery under there so that's not mine
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[Music] in 1964 we have stoney what he thought
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about the English class system if you work for it family just fast for money and get it
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what I want 54 to 20 voice I'm one of the Thailand as you think East End boy you know and he ain't got a no good education all of us up nice 10 boys got a car motive why can he go to Spain every year there's no education in this
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world it's just one big black Basin your God kill your man next year you're getting phantom in at the end of the day it's always there - and for me it's still them and us obviously if you come
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for a bit of a silver spoon you're gonna get more attractive jobs and easier life and an easier success but they don't mean they don't have to work for it I feel that the economy it will bust
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within 5 years because people like myself have been given and given all the time we're paying now someone's getting it I our expense what's your thinking about fancy brexit
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well I was a leaver no one in a past in my cabin he has the Commons and look out and think to myself that's where we make this decision so I Great Britain and I thought myself you know this is what I
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wanted but then again they'd moved to go posts and even now nearly two years dandelion I'm even getting second thoughts that we should have remained I would never vote Tory again and I've
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been at or evolve all my life and probably I might even vote for the Greens [Applause] I almost have a bit of myself but I don't even I don't do anybody any harm
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and why's she worry you possibility of becoming one of them yeah you had visions of me being in the Nick in a
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next seven years you know and you made a great mistake there Michael well thank God yeah it seemed possible because things were pretty rough how about 21 now I mean everyone's
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allowed to be 21 born r55 a gamble much for my luck see what he does I never had visions of me being anything else other than a good citizen I mean I
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am a cheeky chappie and I'll accept that and I'll promise sometimes I push the barrier to the limits but in saying that you are giving your true for pinyon at
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that particular time and I've always worn my heart on the sleeve and I've always liked to think so I'll give you a credible truthful honest opinion what's going on in my life I mean just a
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weigh-in is fine every if it's a nice hard work you're not reaching me yet okay no you're not getting to me all right now be bigger dominate me all right 28
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Tony was taking acting lessons now he supplements his income with occasional TV jobs that's all I called me my if I had a pamper every time I've heard that be a rich man it's exciting times for me because got a
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part in a film and is showing a premiere tonight I've been struggling as a film extra in 1976 when I first started on the screen II last year was a child in time with Benedict Cumberbatch
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Debbie was over there at the bar she's a bit nervous about it I mean opening flea that I've come up with some credibility on the part and most of all I wanted to say to her if she sees her husband up there rather than the character then I know I haven't
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done my job you [ __ ] tell that [ __ ] he'd be in there eating egg fried rice in a minute it's called 90 minutes but the best thing about it was the cast and crew will become one big
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family and it was a joy to go work in marshes incidentally where I used to play football and referee and it was one
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of the things at the beginning of the program is show me the child but I will show you them there you look at me at seven and you look at me even there's 60 free there's no possible way that you
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can't say that's not in there and that's not him then you got it right with me [Music] I need the financial time I read
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observer and the times I'm going to chart her house after that Trinity Hall
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Cambridge Andrew went to charter house and Cambridge where he read law I'd like to be a solicitor and also fairly
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successful now 28 Andrew was a solicitor they're no longer just fours who won't play this or something and you can begin to talk to them I don't think I financially come from the same
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background I just didn't go for a haughty Deb he went for a good Yorkshire lass by the time he was 28 Andrew had Mary Jane I suppose the most important
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thing that's happened is that we've had two children one five years ago Alexander and then a couple of years later Timothy by 35 he'd become a partner in his role firm
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and later he joined the legal department of the large British industrial company a few years after they were taken over by a German firm well Alexander who was
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going out with Philippa when we last met got married about three and a half years ago and they're now based working and living in London Timothy worked for management consultancy in the IT area
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and then decided to specialize in IT and he's gone to Birmingham University and he's reading computer science there Andrew and Jane live in London but they
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have a second home in the country we bought it about just when we got married it was a 200 year old barn that we bought in an auction completely derelict
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nothing in it at all except for manure I remember the garden when you were like up to your eyeballs in weeds and stuff like that well we moved in about 35 years ago and we've been working on it
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ever since really it's a never-ending job I think the country has helped with him relaxing when he's had very intense periods of working don't you ever have any arguments war
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and how do you tend to sort them out Jenny's always right finally he's quite strong in his decisions and I'm not so
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it's really complements me either he can help me to make a decision when I'm a mean oaring the latest thing we
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did we went to Japan a few years ago and we saw some very nice Japanese gardens in Kyoto and we decided that we'd have a go at doing something like that here as well most dangerous things I do climb up
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that ladder work is pretty stressful isn't it yeah I'm pretty used to it now I've been doing it 40 years so you get pretty used to it but in fact I'm retiring at the end of this year
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which I'm looking forward to one of the reasons why I wanted to retire now is really because we're relatively young to make the most of that time we're in a bit of a sweet spot though I think in
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terms of gain traveling and so on maybe in five ten years time that won't be possible and the worst thing is you hear about people who retire and then just drop dead looking back I would have
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liked to have spent a bit more time with the family now rather than giving so much priority to work when you're young and trying to make your career it all seems terribly important to you to spend
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that extra few hours at the office but in the scheme of things it probably would have been better to you know you know go to the school play or the sports day or whatever I mean my mother died
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three years ago and that was quite sad to see her deteriorate yeah me you realize you know what's what's in store for you and you can never be sure of leaving your children and if any worldly
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goods but at least you can be sure that once you're given a good education that's something that no one can take away did you ever return going to boarding school I did go very young and
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we did decide that we would not send our children to boarding school at such young an age I think it's still an age when you really want to be the one who has the most influence on their lives rather than them spending their lives
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with some third party who's going to influence them the dream for us is that our children have a happy and fulfilling life do you think you have you know I think I'll be made fortunate but you
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worked for it yes as they will have to when I go home I have tea then I practice my piano one of the things about the series is the idea that you
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see the mare in the child is that true you know see at the age of seven you're very much a product of your upbringing up to then I can quite have quite strong feelings but Jane's been quite a good
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influence on me a the years still making me more mellow including in my driving and that sort of thing where do you think there's any truth in the ideas behind the program
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that certain people have more options and others on the scene undesirable we do have new options and it is undesirable but it's very difficult to correct I think the class system itself
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is now based more on Fame and what you've achieved in financial terms achievement is obviously more appropriate than what class you were
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born into what's actually being like being in the program I certainly don't look forward to it every 7 years but because I don't have particularly good memory it's quite interesting for me to see what I was like when I was younger
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as well I think we still all feel very nervous doing this but I suppose as you get a bit older you feel less inhibited maybe going back to what you were like we're not quite going back to what you were like when you were 7 but you've got
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less to lose I guess if we did over Lovejoy friend we all want to marry yeah I think I know the one that he's likes best and that's her she keeps changing her mind I don't know
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which one really soon grew up in the East End of London I don't think I'll get married to it the fool knife is my
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just means different things for me I've still got more ideas about mojo I don't know what it's all about Sue was 24 when she married Billy and they had two children six day to get married young
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there must be things that you miss you must miss that crucial stage of being yourself because the minute you get married you're no longer a single being your partnership and that should be the
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idea behind it by the time Sue was 35 she was divorced I've never sat down and thought well what was it what if this was it that I just knew it wasn't working I mean there
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have been relationships but I could have could have settled but they didn't feel quite right so I've always come away and pulled away and just wait until the
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right one come along if they ever do at 42 when we film sue in the karaoke bar she brought Glen along to watch her soon [Music]
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well we've been engaged now for that 14 years I'm not beating any records but it's quite a long time in it yeah so
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what is the status with you in Glen we're still in the middle of the longest engagement known to man we've been together now over 20 years still not marriage Never Say Never
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but no plans goldfish we're both fine as it is and if we do it it's just gonna be us do it spur of the moment thing and you know we love each other we've got a nice life
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he came along at the right time for me I've been on my own with the kids for quite a few years you probably had the worst years really you know the teenage
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years but he's stuck around bless him he's been so supportive there's been some medical staff and some scary stuff going on and he's been there and he's
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been my rock sometimes he can't play nicely with the boys and sometimes my guy and how do we do boys he's having a new love in his life which has been very very difficult for me
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you're the photos what do you mean motorbikes God ah he does like me to get involved in
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this and I won't get on the back of it not yet maybe when he's had a few more years of experience under his belt have you even thought of having your own
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child well Glenn got with me when I was in my forties and I didn't want to do all that again I would have loved to had a baby because he would make a wonderful parent but the timing was off so she's
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your baby she's my new baby yeah yeah and my kids are my babies but she's my new baby we lost our Jesse and Jesse was the star she got to a good old age and we lost up
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the grief is unbearable when you lose 200 people with pets or no and then a friend of mine asked me to take her dog and they brought around for me as well if sad how could you not love her you
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know she's gorgeous almost I don't quite a bit typing a lot of my work is involved in making bookings and dealing with hotel was abroad at 21 sue worked
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for a travel agent at 35 part-time for a building society everything's changed for me I'm there supporting myself a lot more at 42 she went back to work
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full-time helping to run the courses in the legal Faculty of Queen Mary College the University of London at 49 sue is the main administrator for their postgraduate program do like the
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responsibility I love the responsibility I think I was born for the responsible a you can't do two modules that are taught at the same time obviously you know it's physically impossible for us to
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timetable every single module nothing really changed I'm still working for Queen Mary 20 years under my belt but I've said enjoy it I should get to your
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60s it all gets a bit ah how long have we got huh how many years this yeah can't you down but I've still got the energy thank goodness so what happens when you get to your seventies you hear on God you tell me Michael you
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know I've worked all my life you know I can't imagine not working I work a home one day a week now but she's good because the central line was killing me
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and it's such a doleful experience do you have a retiring age there I think mine is 66 I say I'm not looking forward to it but I don't know really if I am
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because I can't imagine how what it's like to fill your days middle class another overlap with a working class foodies are illegitimate child I know
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I've still do my drama do me love these stuff as Glen calls it I like to sing perform and that's my hobby today we're
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having a very lovely afternoon tea so it's just a small gathering just to celebrate my birthday when I got married the primary reason was because I wanted
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to have a child the two to me went together how are the two children doing brilliantly they've both bought their own flats and they're both independent people good jobs oh my kids are single
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still both haven't met mr. Boyett I seem to be happy and they were joy to me well I'm telling you now that little pink cake over there I do worry about the future for younger
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generations you know what's gonna happen because the NHS cannot carry on like this it can't cope it can't cope now I think I'm probably the last generation
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that will get a decent NHS so this don't like people would do push they they look down and everybody else think they're better yeah the roots of this film is
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the class system do you think it's still alive and well you are what you're born into you'll never be upper-class because you're born into our class but you can mix in those circles I mean I don't know
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I've never been upper class I'll never like me to be a us in my life working-class always I don't I don't see why they should have the luck when people worked all their lives never got half as much as what they are
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it just don't see you there people are struggling now benefits are not what they used to be I mean I work in London so I see homeless people all the time I don't remember it being that bad when I
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was younger I suspect it was there but I don't remember it being as bad as that my generation we had wonderful support from the council which meant that if you
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were your parents there were council tenants you would get a council house which got me into a house which then enabled me to buy it and get onto the housing ladder and change my life that's
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not there anymore now council housing is so difficult to get you know you've practically got to be homeless what would you do if had lots of money bet on may trip I'll make
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one of the premises of the film is give me a child until year 7 and I will show you the man do you think that's true I think it probably is to an extent you
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can be ball and shy you can be born as an extrovert you can be someone who likes to make people laugh you can be someone who's much quieter and deeper and I think that's in you but then life
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happens and every experience will change you [Music] yeah my mum and dad thank the Lord are
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still with us and fighting fit not fit but fighting to be fit you know my mum's currently in hospital I mean I've lost family members yeah and
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that everything said but I can't say I've had a huge tragedy in my life yet Michael you know we know we know what's
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come in do you think that these films have any value well they have a value to
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me because it's a life real achievement to be part of this program you know and I'm astounded sometimes by the people that I meet and they all know about this
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program and I know I've watched all of it but they'll have a a memory from it they pick up on things that I think affect then the things we go through Oh
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everyone's going through [Applause] [Music] when I go I like find out all about the
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moon and all that Nick a farmer's son grew up in the Yorkshire Dales and I said that was interesting physics and chemistry well I'm not gonna do that here 14 he was away at boarding school and at 21
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reading physics at Oxford what career you can obscure it depends whether I would be good enough to do what I want to really do I would like if I'm to do
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horses by 28 he had moved to America and was doing research into nuclear fusion at the University of Wisconsin the fusion reaction gives off energy and produces the power that would be turned
00:34:49
into electrical energy and sent out with consumer ha to fit in there in there about 10 million degrees at 35 he was an associate professor but at 42 a full
00:35:03
professor my ambition is a scientist is to be more famous for doing science than for being in this film but unfortunately Michael it's not gonna happen I am
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seriously ill I have a cancer in my throat and I don't know what the prognosis you know I don't know what's going to happen so I'm not really focused on the
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long-term future I'm focused on fairly short term futures at the moment a lot of the treatments that have been having a things that are not good for your blood and it had a couple of them in
00:35:45
rapid succession I guess and so yeah my Bloods a bit thin at the moment ten days ago I went in and had a blood test and the nurse told me that the the level of
00:35:58
my hemoglobin was such that she expected me to be in a wheelchair I don't want to answer that I don't answer those kind of questions I thought
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that would come up because when I was when I was doing the other one somebody said what do you think about girls and I said I don't answer questions like that he's not the reason you're asking it the
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best answer would be to say that I don't answer questions like that but me you know it was what I said that when I was seven and it's there's still the most sensible between what about any new if
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you've been somebody who had fixed ideas of a woman's role in marriage that meant dinner on the table at 6:00 every evening by 28 Nick had married Jackie a
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fellow student from Oxford we don't want to miss out on the chance of having a significant career and we don't want to miss on the chance not on the chance to have kids and to be involved with them
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the one the moment of pure unadulterated joy of my life was when my son was handed to me when he was bought I have never felt so optimistic
00:37:21
so just purely unworried about anything as that that it was just the straight it was just so that that's that that lasts
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forever well no I mean no no no he didn't by 42 they were divorced what I conclude he'd never talk to other people about this who've gone through it I'm not sure
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if they feel it as strongly as I did but it was like a death if your spouse died you could look back and think well it was wonderful while it lasted but in a divorce you can't look you can't look
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back and say these are all happy memories you can talk to me by myself outside but I'll just meet you by the garage okay bye Nick son Adam was 10
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when his parents divorced when he was first told he was terribly terribly upset and then he just pulled himself together and didn't talk about it any
00:38:29
well take it easier the main thing is not to crash okay you know I mean crash I know house you deal with it he doesn't talk to me about it very much at all
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he's a private person he's getting more mature and he has to be very patient with me really can you imagine having me for a dad do you think it would be a
00:38:54
low-pressure existence Christmas might your wife I don't mean to be superficial but I think she's the most beautiful
00:39:08
woman I've ever seen how's married life well they me being very ill has certainly made ever been a bit of a damper on things but Chris is being
00:39:22
actually a complete angel about it over the years next research hit trouble and by 42 he was forced to abandon it when I
00:39:35
was 13 I got hold of a book which said that we were really in trouble because of pollution and because of this I went into this nuclear fusion thing so I make
00:39:48
some choices to start working in this field that handicapped me later there was scientists in essentially the same organization I was in saying you cannot build these things so I had to
00:40:03
pay attention I had to try and do something different so the area that I'm looking at is this times this I don't know why I have a compulsion to teach
00:40:16
really it was just always there in me I just wanted to do it I thought I'd be good at it so I'm hoping that you will remember me being very stupid and going how those arrows are you still teacher yes my
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students are wonderful yes that's really impressive I'm hanging in there as long as I can with them it's great to be around them unless they've got a cold and they're insisting on coughing on me I tried to
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get them not to cough on me but it's a bit hard to hard to deflect them [Music] what attraction on America it's an exciting place to be there's a lot going
00:40:54
on it's much easier to go out and get things done than in England when you came here was it a surprise to you America was quite different than I would
00:41:05
have expected what do you make of Trump oh gosh I don't know how much of what he says is for effect and how much he
00:41:18
believes unless that's the huge question in my mind Teresa may wasn't obviously at the same time as me you don't get to do that
00:41:30
going to Bradford Poly okay so this was my staircase unlike much you're still seeing that people from the right public schools continue to run the country that
00:41:46
those people are not necessarily the the ones who are most fit to to run the country they have a superficial glibness they can present themselves well on a
00:41:58
podium but he's alarming that they are the only ones who have a cherry a clear route to running the country they'd like to come out for a holiday in the country
00:42:11
when we like when I like I gotta live in the town you want to take out father know most interesting my English brothers are deaf one if he can't do anything else he can
00:42:28
probably run the farm but is a last resort it's a fixed reference point in the sense the sort of earthly life and
00:42:39
death cycle you get living on a farm what did you learn here you think that you've carried with you I so feel as if you could look deep somewhere inside me I feel like the some of this in there
00:42:53
somewhere I think if it has been magnificent but rather grim really and sometimes it's rather tragic but you know it sir makes other places you go
00:43:04
seem rather trivial as well well I come up most weekends and Chris gets up usually in midweek we don't get over to England very often and so you can count on one hand how many times you're gonna
00:43:17
see your family before somebody dies and that's getting more and more pressing every time we come have I seen you since
00:43:28
you lost your dad no I loved my dad a lot but he was an old man and he was in his mid 80s I mean the last time I saw
00:43:42
him there wasn't much left of him he was a tiny little frail thing who didn't have much to say I don't okay don't know I mean you know
00:43:57
you know you know me Michael I I'm sure I haven't dealt with it fully but yeah
00:44:11
but it's full of emotion it's all the stuff that we repress as hard as we can isn't it but um yeah it really is I'm
00:44:27
still the same little kid really probably all of his are I think I can relate that little guy he was sort of all eager and earnest trying to answer
00:44:39
the questions you know so yes I think I think you can tell I'm still the same kid I think this film is extremely important it's important to me but it seems to be important to other people as
00:44:53
well that doesn't make it an easy thing it's an incredibly hard thing to be in and I can't even begin to describe how emotionally draining and wrenching it is
00:45:05
just to make the film and to do the interviews and that's even when I'm pretending that nobody else is watching it it isn't a picture really of the
00:45:17
essence of Nick there is the same it's a picture of every man it's how a person any person how they change he's made me
00:45:30
think about all sorts of things more intensive than I probably would have otherwise there are lots of issues that he write aces that I've stood over over the years it certainly highlights the
00:45:46
difference between living in America and England relationships with spouses is given more intensity and focus by being
00:45:57
discussed well has been the saddest thing I mean right now I'm I'm struggling with being ill and I'm very sad for the people who are being
00:46:10
affected by that life doesn't turn out the way I expect are you frightened about it not for myself but for them a bit yeah
00:46:25
I'm writing for them [Music] and what about the other children where are they now what are they doing I would like to get mad when I grow up I don't
00:46:43
think he wants against University on to be an astronaut I'm going to work you more work my heart's desire is to see my daddy
00:46:53
[Music]
00:47:23
[Music]
End of transcript