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how many fake accounts do you think facebook took down in 2019 i don't know 500 million right but it's 6 billion there's all this conversation happening what we should do
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until we rationalize our information ecology we're never gonna really see sustained change we can't solve racial equity we can't solve climate change it won't be cohesive it won't be coherent we're basically
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living in a digital world where everything is silo facebook for example exactly they make a lot of value yeah who's capturing all of it right it's not us there's so many problems at the scale of civilization
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that we need to be able to deal with them on a collective basis it's designed so that people can use bridges to stitch together a web of information in the entire relevant information ecology some
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of those voices are most devs talib did this amazing rap from the perspective of butterfly who's rapping from the perspective of an insect right real quick i have a confession to make calib quality got me locked up
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i'm a little mad at him but i'm grateful for his music [Music] [Music]
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[Music] welcome everyone to episode number nine of noetic nomads and to the age of aquarius i'm filming this right after december 21st 2020
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aka the winter solstice aka the great conjunction aka one of the craziest days i've experienced in a long time but that's a whole nother story but on this crazy day let me introduce you to our next
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guest david benjamin this man is the definition of a sense maker and change maker he's done everything from being a coordinator at the local clean energy alliance to being a presenter at the green life in san quentin
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to helping bring to life pacha's pajamas an augmented reality children's storybook on climate change now he's leveling us up to web 3.0 with the overweb a trust layer over the current web
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which allows the internet to work more like a human brain so we can create a shared context and engage in some real collective sense making speaking of the collective and taking things to the next level i have a special announcement
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on january 21st 2021 the overweb team will be hosting the overweb challenge an online virtual hackathon where you get to decide what the next evolution of the web will look like and by doing so
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also be eligible to win some shiny prizes there'll also be a panel on the state of the internet with speakers such as fred brown on the forbes fund nicole chi of platformabuse.org andrew hacker very appropriate name of thought
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ai and surprise surprise albert kim of noetic nomads as moderator what go to the overweb.com challenge that's the overweb.com
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challenge for more information and to register for the event and i'll also provide a link in the show notes on how you can sign up to be one of the pilot participants of the first bridging competitions bridging being the world's first
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knowledge esport and one in which the best sense maker wins in wink wink there may also be some prizes in store for you as well man this has got to be one of the best noted nomads intro so far right but let's get to the episode already
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where david and i go over everything from building digital nations with the overweb to getting paid for bridging through cryptocurrency to david's collaboration with most deaf and talib kwali and how talib got me locked up when i
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was a teenager you watch know what nomads on youtube and listen on podcasts and be sure to sign up for our newly launched noetic nomads discord server where you can connect and collaborate with some of the most brilliant minds in the metasphere
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including many of the heavy hitters who just migrated over from the stoic discord link is in the description all right here he is the ceo and vision keeper of bridget dot io and the father of the overweb himself
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david benjamin now welcome everyone to another brand new episode of noetic nomads i'm albert kim that boy your mama warned you about and with me today is a father storyteller shift
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shaper and social entrepreneur who's about to revolutionize what you thought the web was by helping create one which is human centered one that rather than dividing helps build bridges that connect ideas and people
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with a new technology called the overweb the next level of the internet one of its initial projects bridget has already won a claim being recipient of the 2019 culture award from the european commission's next
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generation internet program but more than just bridging together info on the web our guest is tackling the current education crisis with his project name school has won international claim for his empowering augmented reality
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children's storybook inspiring climate action paches pajamas and has continued to live out a life of upliftment of underserved communities ranging from oakland to san quentin nomads please help me introducing a
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vision keeper of a more beautiful world in which all people regardless of race gender age wealth or any other marker have the same fundamental right to take part in a community of knowledge sharing and creation and of
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peace and love he is the one and only david benjamin wow thank you so much for coming out today daveed
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oh wow albert thank you thank you for that intro it's my pleasure i mean i i didn't even come close to going through all of it i would have been here all day again thanks i know look all those projects listed i know you're a very
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busy man so i really really appreciate um you coming on and so like i would like to start by i don't know if you remember the exact manner in which we met from your recollection how did we
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come across each other first how i ended up coming into interaction with you was through north basin's pnp people need people so it's a set of zoom dialogues where they get people
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together to explore the trans contextual nature of our lives and our being so essentially you
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get into a session with a set of people and explore conversation and then they switched you to an entire different context a few minutes later and you start the conversations again
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and then after a little while they switch you again and through that time you've explored this particular um this particular topic
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through these different contexts so it's really interesting way of of just seeing all the connections and how how the everything is interdependent um and i'm really curious how you found out
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about uh nowhere's people need people sessions because i got it through like a back door like i had known about nora bateson's work uh you know with you know a little bit from warm data and such but uh mostly because of her sessions at
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the stoa uh and some other uh like like sense making channels that i saw on but actually someone like just like randomly mentioned it in like the discord so the start with discord and that's like oh it's invite only it's
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like okay i'll check it out it's the only one i attended and somehow i came across you so i was wondering like how you found uh her people need people sessions and what attracted you to them
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i had been attracted to nora's work through seeing some youtube videos about maybe 12 months ago and and i contacted her to have a short conversation and i was at that time
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planning on doing an article about uh sense making and was planning on talking to a number of different sense making people and she ended up not just through that
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conversation but through a couple subsequent emails enrolling me to go to her warm data training um host training sessions in pittsburgh in
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february this year so i flew out to pittsburgh um pretty much last minute um one of my collaborators pj ross of umi uh we had been meaning to
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connect we we had met at the black blockchain summit in howard at howard university in september 2019 he heard me talking we were both panelists but he heard me talking he
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said we're going to work together and i didn't know what it was and i really didn't have a good sense of his project but over that period of time we've been trying to get together anyway norah told me she had this event
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in pittsburgh like eight days before it was happening she said you should come and i'm sitting here saying um i don't have it in the budget that's coming up really quick but let me let me call pj
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he should go right so i told pj about it and he said uh well let me look into it so he looked into it a little bit and he called me back okay he said yeah i'll go but you're going to he said i'm going to get you a ticket
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for the workshop i'm going to get you a plane ticket you need to come you need to meet me we need to both be at this session so we went to that session and since then i've been plugged into norah's work
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and this is probably the the third pnp that i've participated in and i was very pleased to have met you albert yeah yeah chance encounters and like synchronicity and like
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you mentioned that like you found her through the sense making space and i could tell like uh while i was doing my research that uh it seems you are plugged in and i don't know how long you've been plugged in but obviously uh
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you know you mentioned uh daniel schmochtenberger's work and all that so i was wondering how you got drawn into the whole sense making space well it's funny because i think for the most part i was working out
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on my own and i think it probably started around six or seven years ago it became very concrete to me that we needed to figure out ways where we could have conversations at scale
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collective conversations that bring in everybody's intelligence and allows us to collectively come to the right decisions or the right choices and through that that exploration i started
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getting more of an appreciation for some of the things that daniel schmuckenberger and jordan hall and some of these other folks uh jamie will and i think i
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first was exposed to jamie wheel wheel at a silicon valley blockchain society meeting he was giving a talk there talking about stealing fire yeah and just the way that he
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spoke about our situation game b rivalrous civilization of self-terminating sense-making uh the these terms were some of them
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were different for me and and i hadn't really thought about things exactly that way but they were really aligned and provided some clarity and another way of describing some of
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these things that that i was talking about and then it became clear to me that oh well when i'm when i'm talking about people coming together and being able to have a conversation we're talking about uh collective sense making
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and collective communication some of these things that um i may not have even really had words for before so they they drew me in jamie jamie um drew me in
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and somehow looking at his work led me to schmacktenberger and to hall and all of a sudden i'm now seeing noor bates and and and it just became kind of an interest
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of mine to see how that worked aligned with what i'm doing hmm yeah i could definitely see that entryway into the whole sense making space because when i when i look at all your different
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projects like over web and bridget like that's exactly what you're trying to do like you know you know one of your many goals is trying to you know get rid of fake news how do we come to consensus how do we connect all these different people so i'm not surprised
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that you got into this space and here's the thing with me i only got into it like a little after kovit hit like i had actually heard of daniel schmuckenberger years ago because like he with his uh neurohacker a collective company
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and i'm into like you know supplements and biohacking i'm super into health like that and that's how i discovered that was my gateway into the schmockenberger world and collective insights people if you have not listened to the collective insights podcast the early ones
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where daniel hosted those are some of the most mind-blowing podcasts you could ever listen to so that's how i got onto it and i'm i would love to get into more into schmuckenberger and his conciliance project and i find
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like some real parallels between your work and what he's doing uh but first i would actually like to go back and rewind and like i want to know like where did you grow up and how that impacted like the choices
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you made in your life in your career i grew up in in berkeley california i was born in san francisco never lived there raised in berkeley living in oakland now and yeah berkeley was a
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magical international place where it was definitely a liberal bastion in many ways at that time as well and it opened me up in a way that i
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probably wouldn't have been able to be opened if it was in new jersey or or saskatchewan or even oakland i mean oakland and berkeley were really different in that respect
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berkeley was just like this melting pot of ideas more so than a lot of other places and i'm sure that they probably skewed liberal at least at that time and um
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being in a place where you would meet people of all ethnicities of all ages and be able to to have conversations and
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interactions with them was really powerful for me and it just stretched me and allowed me to get to the point where i i feel pretty comfortable going into almost any situation because that's what
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it was like when i was growing up yeah so in a lot of ways you grew up in like uh ground zero of like a liberal america so yeah i'm sure that like definitely influenced your path and i could see with like that that's
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that string that runs through um so like what i'd like to go into right now is whoa the what you talked about what we talked about in that original pnp session and you're like mention it like oh it's called the overweb i was like the
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overweb was that and uh like it's described as uh the trust layer over the current web and it allows you to build bridges between ideas and one of the real sexy things it is
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trying to increase our capacity for collective sense making it allows the internet to work more like the human brain you know rather than however it's working right now so i was could you please briefly go over what the overweb
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is for a community yeah so the overweb as you said it's a trust layer on top of the web page on top of the web and the notion here is very similar to
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that idea that that einstein supposedly had but is misquoted on probably all the time where this notion of well you can't solve a problem from the level of consciousness
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that created it and i actually believe that's true i don't think that einstein actually said that but it doesn't matter yeah he probably said some things that were pretty similar to it and someone kind of like paraphrased it and all of a sudden
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we have a meme that makes a lot of sense and so that whole notion i think is absolutely true for the internet i mean we have all these different problems i mean
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i could probably fill up ten ten pairs of hands with the problems but i mean privacy security uh exploitation of our data uh false claims false news i mean it can
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go on and on i don't think if we continue using the internet as it is the web with one layer that's controlled by the person who
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creates it i don't think that we can actually solve this i don't think we can solve any of those problems um the way that we need to so that so that they don't disrupt our democracy
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they don't disrupt our sovereignty so i'm suggesting creating a meta layer on top of the web uh a layer as i said you said as well
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it could be considered a trust later it also could be considered an annotation layer so annotation is like writing in the margins of a book that's annotation that was always thought to be something
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that would be on the web as well the amplification is partial to the definition of the web so what is over web is basically a trust layer on top of the web that enables
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annotations and it has some patterns there's three main patterns so one safe digital space and that is knowing that anyone that you interact with on the
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over web is a person in good standing with the system so that's number one and we we know that that's not how the web works right now no no
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let me ask you this albert how many fake accounts do you think that facebook took down in 2019 david i cheated because i listened to the interview where you gave this answer but like okay but
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if i didn't know the answer right you said three billion facebook accounts right yep and then the number of fake accounts that they had to review that to remove i would have said like i don't know 500 million
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right right right but it's 6 billion 6 billion that that's mind-blowing to me because that's twice as many fake accounts as real accounts and not only did they say that they also said that at
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any given time with facebook five percent of all the accounts on the system are fake um so what does that tell you what does that tell you
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when there's so many fake accounts that's not actually something i wanted to ask you about right all these fake accounts right and like i i saw in one of your interviews right that it's just like you know like people
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were zoom bombing you and just like that's and then just like and of course like people trolled all the time and they put fake accounts they put fake ratings and all this stuff and not but another thing that i was actually interested about
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is so how exactly would uh the overweb tackle this oh well that's it with the safe digital space though our onboarding process is not designed
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to get as many people on the system the absolute quickest possible manner with the least amount of information given we're going to have an onboarding process that gets sufficient information
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so we can know that there's actually a real person on the other end and the one of the ways that we're going to do that is by checking for the the phone number to make sure that it's a real phone that's being used
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and that is unique in the system and we see that at least as a first step that will get us down to all accounts would have a real phone number associated with them that's unique
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and has unique information associated with it i think you get you get past the majority of the problem if you handle it that way and i think in the future we can get to biometric so okay
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yeah yeah so save digital space we know that everybody on the system is a real person in good standing with the system and at the same time we build in provisions for people to have multiple
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personas and yeah so you it still will be possible to to actually make an anonymous um post or comment
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or some kind of annotation but you will know that that anonymous person is actually tied to a real person and if it turned out that that anonymous post is
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inappropriate for the particular domain that they're a part of we also have the concept of a digital nation um yeah but um if if that that particular post
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is incongruent with how the digital nation that they're part of wants to wants to operate its code of conduct then they can be deactivated and if they're deactivated
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there's no throwaway accounts you end up basically having to go through some type of reactivation process or rehabilitation process before you can get back on it is like the social security card i can
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go out and i can charge a bunch of stuff but if i don't pay it then i have to live with it and it's the same way on the overweb if you know what what you put out in the world you have to live with you can't
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go ahead and cyber bully and then the next week start another 10 facebook accounts that just won't happen on the overweb yeah wow i really love that because we're bringing back the tribal dynamics but the but the good
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tribal the in the the intra tribal dynamics which you know our ancestors and still many societies around the world still you know uh partaking it's like there are real
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social consequences you know if you troll everyone you know what they're gonna kick you out the group if you know if you know it's just like you can't get away with anti-social behavior anymore and i love that because i was actually
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that's something that i actually wanted to ask you about because like i've been into uh biology srinivasan's work a lot lately and he one of the one of his uh points that he likes to bring up is
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the the utility of pseudonymity like where like sometimes you don't want to have your you know your your identity for like everything you post but at the same time like there are consequences
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like that you know that that go with not having your name attached to it but like you're bringing it in and integrating it and what's even more beautiful is that you actually have a rehabilitation feature
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just like in this physical world it's like okay i messed up i'm sorry i didn't know and it's like okay we'll let you back in but you got to promise to be a good boy or girl what not
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so i love how all this is imitates uh real life so that that's really amazing yeah and and going on that process that idea around the ability to rehabilitate maybe when you rehabilitate
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you don't initially get all the functionality or maybe within your record your public record there's something there that says oh yeah this person was deactivated during a certain period of
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time just so that there's openness and transparency and basically the ability for people to make choices about who they interact with and we have this notion of a smart filter you could set up your smart
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filter so that if there's anyone who's been blocked by more than 10 or 15 people then you're just not going to even see what they do and and with the smart filters i think you're going to have a smart filter that's
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tunable it's transparent it's portable so i should be able to change that level how many blocks does it take for me not to see the person i might want to ratchet that down and i should also be able to see okay if
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i am doing that what am i missing you know it's true it needs to be transparent so that i can say oh well this is what the filter left through but right now i'm not getting what i want let me see what it didn't let through ah
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i see and then i might be able to adjust it to make it exactly how i want it like rather than like i guess what we have right now where like the algorithm of like facebook twitter or whatnot facebook they decide
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oh you want like you could change some of the settings and you could like mute someone or but like for the most part like they don't give you that option of fine tuning so i mean yeah that's really cool um but you know one thing that
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that you mentioned uh i which is i'm really excited about because as i stated um i'm into biology srinivasan's work a lot lately uh for people who are unaware he was like the cto of uh
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coinbase uh founder of earn.com and all these amazing things basically he's like in the crypto and tech space and he started i don't know david if you're aware of his 1729 project uh i
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he was uh attended an inter intellect salon where he talked about his network state project where he's basically building a city in the cloud uh where he takes he has a vr university
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you know i mean that's going to be built by all these like collaborators and then they're going to bootstrap a digital economy out of it and then crowdsource land from the participants of that community in order to start this network state and
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it's is it's called 1729 it's after like the ramuna john one of his numbers the the indian mathematician so i just wonder like how exactly uh would we build okay yeah that's a lot to
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take in right so yeah so i just wanted your thoughts on that and like how could we use uh the overweb to build a digital nation i think that communities like that
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could come onto the over web and they can define how they want to work they can then basically have their own layer on top of the internet that they can communicate
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interact meet each other within and they will have the choice as well to make their information available to other communities other layers as well that's an interesting piece around the land
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um could you tell me a little bit more about that oh sure um so again so again it's going to start in 1729 it's for people 1729.com and it's basically
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his pilot which just started like uh last week is that he's gonna get like the early adopters the visionaries right here into it and then he's gonna selectively allow them to like uh attend the lectures
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and like kind of like like learn about his network state book he's releasing chapter by chapter and then uh from there they're gonna build like a virtual university using vr and like they're gonna like
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code it and they're gonna like put information time energy into it and then via that they're gonna i don't know exactly how but they're gonna bootstrap a digital economy create their own currency where you know they could facilitate
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exchanges between each other and bring other people in and then eventually they're gonna start crowdsourcing land that's gonna be done i'm assuming with what i know is because first it's gonna be like literally like the individual community members
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like their apartments their houses and be like hey pitch in like this is like part of the community right now right but then over time it's also gonna be like hey now we have all these funds we have like this communal pool of funds
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so now let's like start shifting it out to like hey let's buy some land over here oh how about we buy this tract of land over here it's very much like a decentralized state
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that's all in the cloud the end goal is to be recognized by the united nations now it sounds crazy but the way that biology uh presents it is there are so many countries around the world with like less than a million
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people right and like all these they're recognized i believe 60 of countries in the world have less than 10 million people so if we could get a critical mass of like 1 million plus over time it's quite possible that we
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have the leverage to actually be like hey we're independent we want to have our sovereignty and it's going to be a new type of polity because you're not locked by geography like i'm not very familiar with
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estonia's like e-citizen model but it's kind of like that sort of thing so i just think it's very very interesting yeah that is really interesting it reminds me of the good country which was an effort i
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only know one of the people that was involved madeleine hang but the good country was bringing together people who were aligned with sustainability wanted to make a better world
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and they were creating a state that was a digital state not defined by boundaries but defined by alignment by alignment with this notion that we need to make the world a better place
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i think that they were able to get more than a thousand people becoming members where they were paying five dollars a month something on that order and i'm not exactly sure why they ended the experiment but pretty
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interesting parallel to what you're talking about with the 1729 project it seems as though it goes many steps further where they're they're wanting to create a digital economy among these people and
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as well this notion of basically bringing the online to the offline right i mean they want to be able to be working with real land so when you say crowdsourcing land is it just that someone says that
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i'm gonna make my home part of this nation or are they giving up some sovereignty with the land is how how does that work yeah i mean so far i've only read the intro because that's all they've released so far
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i attended the salon where he talked uh in length about it my grasp of it at first it's gonna be like you know this is my apartment this is my house it's not necessarily saying hey you could crash anytime you want but it's kind of like soft like hey this is kind of part of
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the thing but eventually it's gonna be like hey we're actually gonna pull resources in order to buy land like that we want this track to land over here we want that we want that office building right it's still so
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foreign to me but like they're so foreign to like everyone but like yeah it's just very interesting to think about yeah absolutely and so going back to what we were talking about before i i said that one of the main patterns of
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the overweb is safe digital space so there's actually three the other two are on-page presence and on-page interactions okay so on-page presence is this capability to be able to meet people
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on web pages right now when you and i both go to the same web page we had no idea unless we talked to each other that we both went to the same web page maybe if that web page has comments
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and i happen to look all the way down to the last one i might see that you were there right but yeah you know that is if you made a comment but we're visiting something different
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because we believe that going to a web page is actually an expression of interest in a particular subject which means that there's a possibility
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for alignment with the other people who are coming to that webpage so we've come up with this notion of becoming visible on a webpage so there's a toggle i can go from not being visible to being visible
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on a specific web page and if i do that if i become visible then i'm able to see everyone else who's visible on that webpage i can look at their profile whatever
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they're making available for people they don't know to see so i can look at their profile i can also go ahead and initiate a communication request to them and you know would you like to have a chat would you like to have a video
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conversation so it's a way of meeting people on web pages which we can't do right now yeah that is so brilliant because so many of these features you keep talking about these benefits and just like and i'm trying to build my uh
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online community at nordic nomads now of course like if you go to the site i mean it looks nice but it's pretty much look i'm gonna tell you the truth it's pretty much all wordpress plugins it's nothing like it's no over web or
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anything like that i listen to what people want like you know i see a twitter comment here a post here and like these features like you talk about like hey like i just wanna maybe have a video chat with someone i wanna contact someone this that and that
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and like this facilitates so many of these core wants and needs that i that i hear and i think that's amazing and i know uh one of the your uh i guess pilot projects with overweb
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is school and as i mentioned like this is big big big big ongoing problem with how do we educate our kids and now that everyone's stuck at home and then they have all this mess going on out in
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the world this can really help with that so i was really wondering if you could help explain what the what school does and how it could help with what's going on yeah well school is creating a safe and
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engaging digital space over the web page it is creating a online school platform for k through 12 higher ed eventually workforce and lifelong
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learning will be in there as well and it will create a eventually a marketplace of learning experiences that the learner can get support from a personal ai to help them
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understand the best trajectory through the different learning experiences and with school we're envisioning that this universe of learning experiences it could be as large as you know a course or a degree
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or a certification or credential but we can also have micro credentials we can have even say a lesson where it's a self-directed lesson where you watch a movie and you answer questions and write an
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essay that could be a learning experience and depending on the subject of the film that could be for many many different types of learning experiences so we're looking at just this possibility
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of creating a very vast universe of your learning experiences that anyone can avail themselves of and anyone can create a learning experience anybody can take one if i create one i can set the price for
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it yeah i mean this is so it's so elegant because it hits so many points and again with with uh school is uh primarily targeting k through 12 but i i know you're also with the
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overweb project overall like uh like many of your initial use cases it's kind of like research organizations like people really doing like hard research trying to connect ideas like forming a map
00:35:10
uh of ideas via bridget and like again this scaling thing and you're trying to incentivize like all these different things like for example you're trying to create uh the first what is it uh knowledge sports with bridging you're
00:35:24
having bridging contests and this is super exciting because as i said i'm really uh trying to build my own community and like with all this talk and that i've been listening to lately maybe my own digital
00:35:37
nation who knows and one of the things is i want to bootstrap my own digital economy like i want people to have skin in the game it's not just like hey i just want to partake in the communities like no i like i want to bring
00:35:48
real value and like try to facilitate people exchanging value with others so when when i read about that you could not only organize and share that your research you're doing with bridget
00:36:02
but you could also monetize it you know i just whoo you know my ears perked up so i just wonder if you could speak on how that worked the monetizability and like how you're trying to incentivize like all these pro social
00:36:14
activities with all the overweb projects yeah absolutely and that goes back to the third pillar or third pattern so that's on page interactions on page
00:36:26
interactions we're going to give you a set of smart tags that you can use anywhere on the web so there's a note there's a bridge which i'll talk to you about in a minute a conversation a poll tag
00:36:38
list tag um a claim tag the bridge tag is really that's the piece that pulls it all together right that's what bridges do they connect things and they're doing that for the overweb the the bridging
00:36:51
is is anchoring the over web actually so with the bridge tag uh basically you're connecting a piece of content on one page with a piece of content on another page
00:37:03
with a relationship and there could be for example a contradictory bridge from a article from a paragraph in a news article to a segment of a youtube video where
00:37:16
the person in the youtube video is saying something that's contradictory to what's written in the news article so that would be a contradicting bridge between a piece of text and a piece of
00:37:29
video or segment of video and what we're doing with respect to monetization and a lot of it is going to be focused on this bridging aspect and it goes on to that bridging
00:37:41
challenge that you mentioned earlier we want to give people the value that their bridges create in the ecosystem and how do bridges create value well the main way is by helping
00:37:53
people giving people more context helping see how things are connected and we're imagining that having all this context having all these connections will help people do a better
00:38:06
job of sense making help them discern what's real what's not and if they encounter a bridge that's helpful then they can upvote it so that's one thing we're going to be
00:38:17
tracking is how many of those there are in a bridge and then the second thing is bridge crossings so say they're looking at content a paragraph on the article that's been bridged and they move their cursor
00:38:29
on the page towards that piece of content that content is going to signal and it's it's going to highlight it's going to light up it's going to show a little badge with a number in it that number
00:38:40
is the number of smart tags that have been attached to that particular piece of content and if i click on that number then i'm going to get an overview of all that and i'll be able to see the matching
00:38:53
smart tags i can then decide oh well okay i want to see the video ones that are contradictory that are bridges you know show me the subset of those and then if i want to i can
00:39:05
click through on one of those bridges and it will take me to the segment of that video that we spoke about and that's across it when you're on one piece of content you're on content a and you cross over to content b that's a
00:39:18
crossing so we're gonna we're gonna look at upvotes and crossing and then use that to determine the value that we can then give to the user so they create a bridge that a lot of people are using it's about biden or trump or the election or whatever and
00:39:30
there's a lot of people using it here or now or or later in the future they'll get rewarded by the fact that they've created something that other people are using um that is so awesome like the multimodal
00:39:43
it goes from text to even a youtube video who knows like a soundcloud clip or something that's amazing it's like it's very uh trans contextual uh like we mentioned at the start with uh nora bateson's uh people need people
00:39:54
sessions so i love how that dovetails and like that the monetizable thing because like again like uh doing my research you're like i don't even have to do my research and know that this advertising model not so great
00:40:08
right and like you gave these uh figures and talked about how google search and adwords they taken over 100 billion dollars annually but the only index was it 0.03
00:40:19
of the web and then on top of that 95 of web traffic goes to sites on page one of google search results so we're not getting anywhere like you have to it's like unless you optimize seo it's like
00:40:32
we're not getting this map quote unquote of reality our sense making is being hijacked by whatever you know whoever is basically the algorithm and then whoever could hack the algorithm the best so it's kind of like i believe that
00:40:45
um someone uh kind of referred to the overweb almost as like a decentralized wikipedia like how would you best describe it well i'd say there are some aspects of it that are like a decentralized
00:40:57
wikipedia and that it allows anybody to contribute whether wikipedia still does that or not matters yeah yeah but i mean i think that you know that's
00:41:10
that's a pretty interesting way of thinking about it another way that i've thought about it is it's like a gps for online information ah um another way it's like minecraft
00:41:22
for knowledge because we're building knowledge oh yeah that's a great one with school we're basically providing the students with the capacity to create knowledge artifacts which layer on top of the
00:41:35
page which makes their thinking visible that's valuable to them because it reduces cognitive load because they can they basically have now a perfect memory that's easily retrievable there's no problem retrieving that
00:41:48
information so it's good for them their peers can look at what they've created and can interact with them and create things around it so it creates the possibility of collaboration right there and the teacher can look at the knowledge artifacts that
00:42:02
i've created and use that as a way to understand how well i understand the material as well as maybe get me back on track give them a sense of you know how my thinking is limited and how they can help expand that
00:42:15
um yeah i mean one of your taglines was you want to make uh uh thinking visual and like and like this this is actually one of the things that i've really uh been thinking about lately like doing
00:42:27
my nordic nomads project and like i try to plan it's all just linear words line by line i'm like this is not how i think you know like when i you know it's like it's like okay okay i'll give you a little inside baseball like right now
00:42:40
like as i'm going through all these conversations like i have you know like this one note of of notes right but just like i gotta scroll down to look at it scroll back up scroll back down but it's like there's a there's a you know it's like
00:42:52
one topic here and then but there's one topic here but they should be linking but if i had a visual web i'm just like oh this this this so it just makes so much sense and um actually what i wanted to go back to
00:43:05
is actually okay this is the thing that i'm really interested in well one of many things is that you mentioned of course uh the monetizability uh but uh how exactly would the whole monetizability thing
00:43:18
work uh in the the context within which i asked that is that i believe that you stated that bridget is implemented on holochain and uh for those uh unfamiliar with holochain is basically um a distributed
00:43:31
ledger technology like blockchain but different uh in that every node has its own ledger so it's one of the most scalable distributed ledger technologies because you don't have to put in you don't have to like uh i guess
00:43:44
verify the chain every time you can just have maybe even like a one-to-one so i was just wondering how do you see all these different concepts such as the overweb blockchain hollow chain uh interacting and would that have
00:43:56
anything to do with the uh payment mechanism yeah absolutely so we haven't implemented on holochain yet but we have intentions to do i think it's a super interesting technology
00:44:09
and it and it it's actually so well aligned with us that if we can make it work i'll be very happy for sure so with holochain or some kind of
00:44:22
blockchain that some of the benefits we get are basically knowing exactly who we're we're dealing with um you know strong authentication authorization but the the other piece is
00:44:36
the ability to give small pieces of value out you can't really run a business where you're essentially getting people to pay for things in credit cards that cost less than a dollar
00:44:47
because exactly there's a 30 30 fee right off the top right um and it's the same way with something like a bridge i mean a popular bridge we're going to be able to just give you a little bit
00:45:01
for every incremental usage of it but we want to give you that little bit and and if it's popular then it's going to add up and it's going to actually make a difference for you but we're still working on just little
00:45:13
increments of value that we're we're able to give them and that can be done very well with the hollow chain currency can be done with blockchain tokens these are perfect for it i mean you right now if you want you could buy ten
00:45:26
thousands or you know or a hundred thousands of a bitcoin you can make an investment of however large you wanted to be and it's that scalability going from the absolute minute to large is what was
00:45:39
really exciting about working with either tokens or some other type of electronic currency like we could do on holochain yeah i'm definitely uh very bullish on uh blockchain high chain all these uh
00:45:52
distributed ledger technologies and yeah i mean definitely and of course like you know it's been a while since people regularly bought bitcoin in whole like right now it's at 17 000. so yes i mean like right now people like
00:46:04
give me like like 1.1 or something like that so yeah um so i like to do a little detour because this is something i found really interesting especially because uh i have a two-year-old niece and there's
00:46:18
another one coming on the way and uh i don't know if you have anything in the works similar because i would love to know about it is uh pacha's pajamas and uh it's it it's described as like she's a shiro
00:46:30
who teaches children how to turn passion into climate action and then when i saw like the people involved in the project you talk about most deaf uh talib kwali uh cheech marin uh
00:46:43
ley nubians lyrics born i was like man these are like this is a lot of this is my childhood so i just are really interested in how this project came together and like what it was like uh doing something like this it's
00:46:56
interesting pasta's pajamas i've been working on for about a decade now um lately i've been more focused on on bridgette and the overweb school etc but it's it's
00:47:08
definitely something that just recently actually has come back to the fore but really the thing to really say about it is have you heard that idea that it takes 10 years for an overnight
00:47:20
sensation yeah yeah so we're at 10 years now uh pajamas and yes it's um like my second daughter malia is my first daughter and then
00:47:33
my second daughter is is pacha and my third one is bridget so i see and um yeah i've worked with an amazing group of of core people on that project allah l henson
00:47:46
dre johnson and my co-founder aaron abelman we took it took a long time it took a long time to come up with a story world that was
00:48:00
coherent and that would draw just about anyone in we got to a book in 2016. it was called a story written by nature and it was an it's an augmented reality
00:48:11
book there's an app called pacha live you put it over the book and the illustrations in the book jump off the pages and start talking dancing singing some of those voices are most deaf
00:48:24
talented cheech marin talib quali does a rap from the perspective of a butterfly most definitely does the narrator and you know it was beautiful working
00:48:36
with those guys i mean they're geniuses uh talib he went to the butterfly wikipedia page told us to just have the track rolling
00:48:49
just continuing and just like sit back just stand by so we just hung out for an hour or so and an hour later he said oh i'm ready i'm about to drop these and and he just went ahead and
00:49:02
did this amazing rap from the perspective of a butterfly you've never heard talib quality do anything like that or most most uh most rappers adult rappers yeah who's rapping from the perspective of an insect right
00:49:15
yeah but this was science he he took the information the number of legs the number of eyes how they see what they see you know their progression from a caterpillar to a butterfly put all that
00:49:27
science into this really cool rap song called butterfly life wow like i would have loved to been a fly on the wall when he was going through that like that would have been amazing and
00:49:39
it's just like okay i mean like real quick uh i have i have a confession to make okay so i got into a lot of trouble when i was a kid people who listened to some of my previous episodes would know that and uh
00:49:51
actually talib kwali he got me locked up because back in uh 2001 when i was a young tyke uh i didn't have money to buy cds so to buy reflection eternal you know circle 2000
00:50:06
i tried to shoplift it and uh i didn't quite get away with it so i i went to juvie because of talent quality so i'm a little mad at him but i'm grateful for his music and for being
00:50:19
part of pacha's pajamas yeah oh man wow well you know we learn from these things right that's that's the one thing that i've learned more than anything else that everything is a learning experience yeah exactly exactly i feel like i mean
00:50:33
this everything like i've been through so many uh struggles in my life and i know like with your work in uh uh with and san quentin you know just like these are learning experiences and sometimes you know like
00:50:44
the way the system works you know we got to deal with it but it's like as long as we're here we got to make the best of the situation and like i've that's the thing that i've learned through all my terrible troubles i was actually
00:50:57
locked up for three years when i was a teenager so but i got out of that and then now i'm doing this and then i'm trying to be like hey you don't you don't have to stay you
00:51:09
know in that realm you know like i was you know like again i told my story but again i was i was locked up for three years i was in group homes i was in institutions i had a terrible life i was working minimum wage jobs and then
00:51:20
now i'm like i'm just flying because you know like i just believed in myself and i just kept going and uh that's why i really appreciate your work when i said that you're working with people in san quentin it's like there were people coming in to
00:51:32
visit people like me when i was a junior juvenile delinquent so i mean that was uh really awesome and i really appreciate your work in doing that you know one thing i want to mention just because you said how to make the
00:51:45
best of it so i have a practice when something really bad happens and it could be the end of a marriage you know i've done i've had that happen um but it also could be the end of a business
00:51:57
i've had that happen as well or it could be even something like covid but the the practice is to ask myself how could this be the best thing ever
00:52:08
yeah what i found is you know there's a lot of self-talk initially like oh yeah it can't be this is actually horrible i mean it's like the worst thing ever why are you asking me how could this be the best thing ever
00:52:21
but what i have found is that question has opened so many different doorways for me to be able to actually look back on some things that i thought were just the absolute worst thing and say you
00:52:35
know what these were essential to my to my my progression they were the best thing that could happen at that moment even though it felt like the worst thing yeah i
00:52:46
i embody that 150 like i like i'm to the point where i don't even ask the question why did this happen to me it's always like why is this happening for me because like i was so so i was like i was in such a hole so like
00:53:00
but then i realized looking back like for example i had the word i was in the worst health ever right like i i got like i just i had my body got to the point where i was i could barely lift my arms like above my shoulder
00:53:12
above shoulder level like i was just i was so weak like i would just walk like a few steps down like i walked down the block and i just start sweating like profusely like i was just in terrible health you know terrible shape and just tell my health
00:53:25
because of that i got into i got obsessed with nutrition i got obsessed with exercise i got obsessed with breathing exercises with meditation with yoga with spiritual development
00:53:36
with relational development if i had just been ok if i had been normal i would have been probably uh average a little above average but because that happened for me
00:53:48
now i'm like i could tell if anyone want to ask me about health anyone ask me about biohacking secrets i could tell you that i could tell you how to get go from zero to 100 so i'm 100 with the the zero to 100
00:54:02
mentality and what happening for us rather than to us oh i love that i love that what is what's hap why is this happening for me i love that that's amazing it kind of fits into the other way i
00:54:14
like to frame it is a no regrets lifestyle like yeah just not having any regrets for anything recognizing there were things that i you know i didn't want to have happened but you know should i have a regret about
00:54:27
something that led to my marriage breaking up no because my marriage was meant to break up right i mean yeah it goes back to that health thing as well um yeah i had an ailment for a couple years
00:54:40
yeah it was one of those things that's pretty embarrassing and that experience that brought me to yoga that brought me to meditation exactly that brought me to basically
00:54:52
every door spiritual door that's open i believe has a genesis in that in that period very similar to your story um yeah exactly and just like i think like i
00:55:06
think we just we need to change our relationship with these ideas because like like the word trauma right everyone has some sort of trauma emotional physical spiritual but like just because you're quote unquote traumatized right that doesn't
00:55:19
necessarily mean that you drop into like this permanently worse state because it's not just you're traumatized into uh like when people ptsd you know post-traumatic stress disorder
00:55:29
but on the flip side it's also quite possible and in fact you hear these inspirational stories without that trauma right without the trauma they would have never become who they became like that post-traumatic growth
00:55:42
is another way that you could look at it and it's just like how do we support people from not falling into the disorder from the trauma but from the growth from the trauma so yeah i'm i'm totally
00:55:56
with that and i know that's what you've been doing with your projects hopefully that's what i'm doing with my project so again like it's amazing and uh okay i just want to add one quick thing
00:56:08
for selfish reasons what is going on with practice mamas where it became a 10 a year success because i want to actually get one of those whatever it is for my niece well pasta's pajamas is available on amazon
00:56:21
right now pacha's pajamas a story written by nature we have a website as well that you can check out and get more information at patchespajamas.com i'll spell it
00:56:37
p-a-c-h-a-s-p-a-j-a-m-a-s dot com we're actually in the process of um making it into an animated series we're the early stage of the process okay yeah i don't want to jinx it yeah okay
00:56:49
okay so yeah i mean we have a team in place that it has put together a really strong treatment of what a series could look like for a preschool show we're also interested in potentially
00:57:01
a show for six and nine year olds as well we can imagine either one of them we actually see pacha as a a character that can grow with the kids ah yeah the whole notion of pasha is she's a
00:57:15
little girl with big dreams her dreams are bigger than andy's mountains which are the homeland of her ancestors and when she goes to sleep the plants and animals on her pajamas become her guides on a dream adventure
00:57:28
to learn more about herself and her connection to the natural world so it's all about this dream the the capacity of dreams to give us information
00:57:39
and for us to learn so we can bring back this information to the waking life and uh recognizing that it's about dreams well dreams are recurring i've had there's some dreams that i've
00:57:52
had throughout my life so we're structuring the pacha world in that way such that there's a three-year-old pacha that has very simplistic dreams and
00:58:05
in this first story she's just meeting the animals basically right that's all it is that's what you need for kind of a picture book there's also a seven-year-old pacha for the early reader book
00:58:17
where she meets the animals but there's a little conflict and she has to get together with them and they have to create this big festival um in nature the biggest festival in the history of the planet except no humans
00:58:29
were invited they actually think pacha's a little gorilla because she's wearing a gorilla mask through that book um but there's still another pacha that's 10 years old
00:58:41
and she's the heroine the sh the shero of the young reader book which is available on amazon it's for you know eight to 12 year olds the that's the age age group for that
00:58:54
book and she's 10 year olds it's it's a story that's got a lot of complexity it's not just meeting animals it's it's meeting animals coming together with them to put together this great festival and
00:59:06
there's an antagonist mr tick who wants everything to stay the same and he wants to stop their festival so there there's a lot going on in this older one but yeah we really see
00:59:17
the value of of having a character that can grow with the learner yeah and i was just enraptured i felt like a little kid like like the campfire while his dad's telling him stories like that is amazing
00:59:31
and i'm glad because i went to the website the the the paches pajamas website and it said sold out so i was like no but it's actually available on amazon right now yes okay awesome and again
00:59:42
congratulations on whatever's coming up i mean i'm really excited for that um and now i wanted to speak now about like the core values of overweb and now
00:59:54
uh from what i read that they were truth uh with respect to transparency and uh and having visible context uh freedom of knowledge so that the ideas are free to be discussed and that you can have fact checking
01:00:05
and also equity and inclusion and so all people you know regardless of whatever category you might fall into they all have the uh same access to the knowledge and uh the reason that i bring this up
01:00:18
is because i believe that i really believe in the importance uh of baking in uh you know your values at the start you know because the initial conditions are so so important and to have you know in
01:00:30
order from the start being like hey we want to have a diverse set of underrepresented voices it's important because if you don't make it explicit at the start you could uh get away with it you know
01:00:43
so that's the thing like with noetic nomads from the start uh my thing was like i wanted to have people who are not you know the you know traditional experts you know i mean not the traditional you know for example in the
01:00:54
game a world it's always like hey you know we're gonna have like this group of people right they're the experts you know you you pay attention to them it's one to many relation right but you know it's just like that's not
01:01:07
happening you know that's not working so well if you can't tell by this co-vid world right and then um and then so again this collective sense-making thing is like okay these experts don't know everything so you know how about the people on the
01:01:19
ground maybe they have a clue what's going on right so that's why i like i'm not i don't want the traditional experts i don't want the people who everyone has known for this whole time telling me what to think i want to know from everyone the
01:01:31
collective the real smart people on the ground and then so with but the thing is in the game b world i still saw some of that same dynamic happening and i don't want to name names i don't
01:01:43
want to you know name specific categories but they they look similar right to the game a figures the game b figures who are kind of sitting at the top
01:01:56
and telling people how it might be in the future rather than how it is right now gaming tells you how it is right now game b they tell you how it is in the future so uh where do i go with this is like what your personal take is
01:02:08
in the values that that you want to put into projects like the overweb and bridget in school and how they're gonna uh you know pervade as time goes on yeah i mean you've mentioned a number of them and
01:02:22
another one that i definitely want to throw in there as well is value create value yes be creative express yourself and do it in a way
01:02:34
that's creating value i want a system that's going to give me the lion's share of the value that i create and that would be such a departure from what we're doing right now
01:02:47
with facebook for example exactly they make a lot of value yeah who's capturing all of it oh it's uh right it's not us exactly yeah transparency i think is super important
01:03:00
uh being able to to work as a on a collective basis i think that's where we really fall down right now and as humans have always fallen down really i mean we just
01:03:12
don't have the capacity to work with groups larger than you know dunbar's number 150 maybe i just haven't seen a good capacity for us to do collective sense making collective
01:03:24
meaning making collective communication and these are the things that we need to do to be able to deal with the existential threats that we have i could look in any direction you know and and say oh wow there's some major
01:03:37
problems whether you're talking about food and topsoil overfishing the ocean climate change resource issues pulling oil you know finite amount of our energy resources
01:03:50
whether i don't know maybe that's not so much of a problem as a feature but um there's so many things that are happening now ai is another one like where will ai go with
01:04:03
singularity and that there's so many problems that are really at the scale of civilization that we need to be able to deal with them on a collective basis on
01:04:15
a civilization basis and if we're not able to have these conversations we're not able to have even a shared context that's with the internet right now the splinter net yeah yes doesn't have right we don't
01:04:27
have a shared contest because all the information is in silos meaning that you have you have situations where people don't want to use outbound links because they want to keep you in
01:04:39
on their pages so that creates an information side though and then in social media we're in filter bubbles yeah so we're only seeing people who have opinions that are very consistent with us or for the
01:04:51
majority of the time and then in search which you mentioned earlier we're in search bubbles where they're giving us things that they think is going to be best for us but we can't tell what they
01:05:04
sifted out and aren't showing us so you take the information styles the filter bubbles the the search bubbles you basically have a fragmentation of the information that means when you and i are talking about
01:05:16
something we don't have a common basis of understanding of what the context for that subject is and that's what i want to create i want to create an ability for us all to have this big shared context and
01:05:30
we can just focus in on the piece that's interesting to us at the moment but it contains all the connections that anyone thought was related to any of the different pieces of it
01:05:41
um yeah definitely and i again i love the bridge metaphor because again like when i when i look at what i'm doing with note nomads like i see i see myself as like a bridge nobody romance as a bridge
01:05:54
like as i mentioned i started at the stowe like i guess my my initial conditions is i started at the rebel wisdom community and the stowe community and right and then also maybe like the future thinkers
01:06:06
community and then also but like the sense making community i want to know bait since people need people sessions where i found you and then i'm going to the inter intellect sessions and i'm like as as time goes on i'm like i'm like
01:06:19
wading in and out of all these different communities and then like it's like and i'm acting at the bridge like hey you hey i found this person rebel wisdom i found this person out there i found this for some people need people sessions so
01:06:32
i kind of see myself almost as a bridge as well so like i i mean i love that metaphor so much and and and one thing is i think it is very salient especially
01:06:44
at this point in time is uh not just creating bridges between ideas and and just like people in the abstract but you know within like groups themselves in the real world now one thing i came across in my
01:06:58
research was uh the black browser project and uh where you talked about how it was important to have a safe space to discuss issues affecting black people and then like i you know like i listened to stories all these unfortunate
01:07:11
sessions that you know we're not so polite if if i could put it like that so i was just wondering if you could please tell us about the project and why having spaces like these are important and then how
01:07:23
possibly in the future we could build bridges within these spaces and that have all them part of the shared context yeah that's a really interesting question so how this what's the genesis of the black
01:07:35
browser project well after george floyd was killed there's all this conversation happening about what we should do and you know some people were protesting and some people were thinking about
01:07:48
different policies and i always found myself coming back to the same point and that is until we rationalize our information ecology
01:08:00
we're never going to really see sustained change on any of these things we can't solve racial equity we can't solve climate change we can't solve ocean acidification any of these things until we we create
01:08:14
the an information ecology that actually supports them being solved here's and here's what i mean just let's let's talk about black folks and so i was talking to black folks i was saying
01:08:28
look yes we need to solve racial equity right it has to happen but as long as we're basically living in a digital world where everything is
01:08:39
siloed there's not going to be really the opportunity for us to to have the conversations and come to the understandings that are needed to
01:08:50
be able to elevate a real comprehensive coherent racial equity yes we might be able to get some policies here it won't be cohesive it won't be coherent it won't address everything that only
01:09:03
becomes possible when we address our information ecology and so what i was saying was here's an example so i a good friend of mine he's he's college educated
01:09:15
he's an entrepreneur he's been moving into the venture capital space for the last uh several years and having some success there as well he didn't know about black wall street so black wall street was in
01:09:30
the 1910s and early 1920s in tulsa since the late 1910s um and and it ended in 1921 it was a disaster in that basically
01:09:44
the the town of tulsa turned on this neighborhood but this neighborhood was so amazing this black wall tree and it was an example where
01:09:56
where black people came together and created their own economy and so they had black barber shops and dentists and doctors and um
01:10:09
newspapers and all the different parts of the ecology were working right there in in black wall street in part of tulsa it was amazing people were were thriving
01:10:23
something happened and the white folks they thought that someone had raped a woman or had disrespected a white woman and they ended up grabbing him and then
01:10:35
the black town people they went and tried to to stop you know a lynching basically and the whole thing erupted you had the basically bombs being
01:10:46
dropped on the city and the there's two things that i think are really important that pretty much any black person should know and really any americans should know and that is first of all black people were able
01:11:00
to get together and create something very meaningful they were able to create a real economy that actually worked and where they were the doctors they were the dentists they were the newspaper
01:11:12
writers and they did it successfully and it worked so is possible then the second thing is that these things tend to get destroyed and that you know that it got destroyed 1921
01:11:24
and unfortunately the history books call it a race riot it wasn't a race riot it was more people of one cohort jumping on another cohort and destroying it because they had more
01:11:36
power than them and my point here is that a guy who i think should have known this didn't know it and there's a lot of people and i i totally respect this perspective
01:11:50
that if we're going to be charting a course into the history as as a people whatever people we're talking about we need to understand our history and if people aren't understanding
01:12:02
incidents like black wall street which is incredibly important for black history if you're a black person then how are you going to be able to conceive of the full possibilities of where we could
01:12:15
go so the the black browser project is designed to create a safe digital space for black people and allies to come together and talk about issues
01:12:26
that affect the black community it's designed so that people can use bridges to connect pieces of black history
01:12:38
to current events to be able to connect first-hand accounts to current events to basically stitch together a web of information basically the the entire relevant
01:12:51
information ecology for the black community and there's a lot of other things you could do it could help people buy black like you're in the shopping process and you um are able to see i'm talking about
01:13:04
the online shopping process at least initially you're able to see some of the different options or alternative products that may not be available on amazon or maybe they are but they're they're
01:13:16
basically products that could be either created by or for black people or even optimized for black skin if we're talking about creams or some kind of makeup
01:13:28
those types of things you could basically see alternatives that may be more applicable those were the three use cases that we've been talking about with respect to the black browser we've had a number of salons i think about
01:13:40
six salons where we've got feedback from the community on it um yeah and like i've heard like i mean like similar sentiment with like you know i've been reading uh recently about community building
01:13:52
and then like you know for for a while like i was under like the silicon valley mentality oh just scale as fast as possible get as many people in as possible but then now that what actually read like how you actually build
01:14:05
real sustainable communities like no you like you it actually starts with like a core group a tight-knit group like a strong sense of identity and like i read it within the context of like south asian people it was like a south asian
01:14:17
like brown people group as they called it and they're like you know what it's just like i'm in this group and it seems like oh safe spaces oh that's like a bad thing that's like something that like people look down upon it's like no actually having this safe container
01:14:31
actually allows actually even greater a disagreement within that safe container because they don't have to worry about someone jumping in on them and attacking them and then they have they have to defend themselves if
01:14:44
someone's like oh i'm from uh group x and group y i'm afraid group y is gonna come in start hijacking like i have to defend my my identity but if i'm within this safe container i could be like okay i don't have to
01:14:57
worry about those trolls those a-holes or whatever i could just be like hey let's let's figure this thing out let's talk it out and we could actually start disagreeing as individuals of the same group i
01:15:10
understand like that is so integral to creating the basis of a more beautiful productive community who can then after being uh empowered within that
01:15:22
space can go outside and deal with all these other you know all this hot mess that's going out there yeah and and and myself like the um uh the black
01:15:33
wall street the massacre i was completely unaware of that until the watchman series uh the hbo watchman series yeah that's the thing i just like when i watched it i was like what the heck is this i was like this
01:15:45
seems kind of unrealistic in terms of like someone's just bombing some sort of like group because they're more successful than was like oh this actually happened like they were actually that
01:15:55
jelly that they just went in like with the state and just blew that whole thing up i was like that's incredible and like again like that's really really important to the history and like yeah again
01:16:08
that's why i love what you're doing with all your projects like uh you know the black browser project and all that yeah and the black browser project i mean it certainly it could work for other groups and we're
01:16:21
conceiving of the notion of a digital nation so there's a nation could be people that are aligned by geography but it also could be identity so that's like the black community but could it be the southeast asians or it
01:16:34
could be um people who are from china but live abroad it also could be dog lovers you could have a nation of dog lovers i'm just thinking vegan because i'm a vegan so like
01:16:47
like when you talk about how like you could like uh have like these little annotations or whatnot between like the products you could be like automatically i don't have to look through all this it's just like oh vegan product vegan vegan not vegan it's like like some of that so
01:16:59
there's so many different contexts which is why i love like how elegant your solutions are oh yeah there's so many different permutations i think that's been the thing that's been a little bit difficult with the project is to be able to
01:17:12
actually hone in on some things that whoever i'm speaking to would be really excited about and not bog them down with this whole overweb
01:17:23
concept or you know of course there are some people who are interested in overweb and that's why we're talking on places like noetic nomads i mean there is an audience for it but there's also many other audiences that
01:17:37
could be really interested in different aspects of what we're doing and like i said the hard part has been trying to figure out the languaging and also the use cases that are most pertinent at the particular time i'm having a
01:17:50
conversation duffy that was an amazing conversation we went over the overweb talib kwali we're talking about oh you know creating a digital nation
01:18:03
i mean this is amazing i'm so glad that synchronicity found you and and bound us together via the bridge and then now you're at my bridge which is nordic nomad so again uh thank you so
01:18:16
much for coming on and uh as as because you identify as many things going a father a vision keeper you know a ceo but also as a storyteller uh so
01:18:28
i would like to ask you if someone were to write your life story when it's all said and done what is it that you wish that others would take from it i think would be great if people
01:18:39
were to walk away and say wow when bad things happen beautiful things can come out of those seeds that the things that are happening to us right now
01:18:52
there's an absolute reason why they need to happen and they are as you said they're happening for us for our collective consciousness to evolve we had to have a trump you know what i
01:19:05
mean some people exactly yeah yeah within my circle they're like oh my god he's the worst thing ever you know he's destroyed the world but no we had to have him you know he's putting
01:19:17
us on the trajectory somehow and i don't know how it is right but somehow that this can lead to where we need to go and by having him in here stirring
01:19:29
things up for the last four years it's actually pushed us forward in ways that a lot of us didn't want to go that direction and yet at the same time it's just
01:19:41
part of it that's i mean this is just how the world works so i'm hoping that we all can come together and i can continue to be able to just cultivating an awareness that
01:19:52
everything that happens is a seed for what's next and that we can build mighty trees from these seas that you know maybe we didn't even want hmm yeah absolutely beautiful
01:20:06
i mean like is that old story of like you know it's like that what was it the old chinese like like what is it the dao is proverb it's like oh my ox died that's a bad thing we'll see it's just like oh it just
01:20:19
doesn't that whole thing is like the first second third fourth order consequences it's just like we don't know how this is gonna turn out again like the fact that i was in terrible shape led me to become
01:20:30
super obsessed with my health and now i'm over here and i'm trying to make the world a better place building bridges and then stumbling upon amazing people like david benjamin who's doing amazing
01:20:43
things and i'm glad that i could get the word out there about you and all your projects so where can people find out more about you and what you're working on you could find out more at bridget.io says b-r-i-d-g-i-t
01:20:57
dot io also the overweb.com says the overweb.com o-v-e-r-w-e-b.com and then school.com and school.com
01:21:11
it's a little bit hard but um i'll definitely link that one here it's k o with a bar o with a bar l dot com you make the o with the bar by clicking the o and then clicking the
01:21:25
seven well holding the o and then clicking seven we're gonna get our search engine optimization together so it makes it a little bit easier to get to it but uh the one thing i want to just leave you with
01:21:37
is i'm wanting the word of the decade for 2020 to 2030 to be what bridge yes yes i got it what do you think i mean
01:21:51
shouldn't it be we need bridges right we need all kind of bridges right that that that is it like that's the metaphor between people between ideas between just like everything the web
01:22:04
i mean yeah exactly bridge word of the decade okay you heard it here folks the word of the decade officially for the 2020s is bridge and that's the final word i'm sorry okay
01:22:17
so that's it thank you so much david for coming on you are amazing again find them at bridget bridget.io the overweb.com and school don't worry about spelling it i'll link it so you can just click on it all right
01:22:29
okay so that's it for another episode of nordic nomads peace out everybody and step up because the world needs you okay bye all right thanks we are done
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